Cost of uC programming services?

Hello All,

In the process of compiling a cost analysis there is an item that I 
haven't needed yet. So: What is the typical cost of having a distributor 
or manufacturer pre-program a flash device such as a micro controller, 
including blowing the JTAG fuse and if necessary blocking a possible 
bootstrap loader routine? Say, for 1000 devices at a time, or whatever 
quantity your experience is related to.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

> haven't needed yet. So: What is the typical cost of having a distributor
> or manufacturer pre-program a flash device such as a micro controller,
> including blowing the JTAG fuse and if necessary blocking a possible

Distris outsource it in my experience. Figure anywhere between $0.10 to
$0.75 depending on the code size, time to program, ability to
multi-gang, need for unique serialization, and volume.

Hello Lewin,

>>haven't needed yet. So: What is the typical cost of having a distributor
>>or manufacturer pre-program a flash device such as a micro controller,
>>including blowing the JTAG fuse and if necessary blocking a possible
> 
> Distris outsource it in my experience. Figure anywhere between $0.10 to
> $0.75 depending on the code size, time to program, ability to
> multi-gang, need for unique serialization, and volume.
> 

Thanks for the info. That isn't too expensive. Outsourcing can be a 
concern. Do you think they anonymize the batches far enough so your code 
is safe from potential confidentiality breaches?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Joerg wrote:

> Hello Lewin,
> 
>>> haven't needed yet. So: What is the typical cost of having a distributor
>>> or manufacturer pre-program a flash device such as a micro controller,
>>> including blowing the JTAG fuse and if necessary blocking a possible
>>
>>
>> Distris outsource it in my experience. Figure anywhere between $0.10 to
>> $0.75 depending on the code size, time to program, ability to
>> multi-gang, need for unique serialization, and volume.
>>

Your pricing is consistent with my experience.
Free is also a definite possibility if your
volume and negotiating skills are high (:

> 
> Thanks for the info. That isn't too expensive. Outsourcing can be a 
> concern. Do you think they anonymize the batches far enough so your code 
> is safe from potential confidentiality breaches?

Generally you have the parts labeled as
part of the programming process.

I've never heard anyone express a concern
or problem about confidentiality.  I can
only assume that mainline distributers have
some sort of security in place.


> Regards, Joerg
> 
> http://www.analogconsultants.com

Hello Jim,

>>> Distris outsource it in my experience. Figure anywhere between $0.10 to
>>> $0.75 depending on the code size, time to program, ability to
>>> multi-gang, need for unique serialization, and volume.
> 
> Your pricing is consistent with my experience.
> Free is also a definite possibility if your
> volume and negotiating skills are high (:


The price is pretty low compared to a typical device which runs in the 
$4-$8 range. Probably 'free' will in the end mean the same as 'free' 
zero-interest financing on furniture. They just lump it into the grand 
total.

>>
>> Thanks for the info. That isn't too expensive. Outsourcing can be a 
>> concern. Do you think they anonymize the batches far enough so your 
>> code is safe from potential confidentiality breaches?
> 
> 
> Generally you have the parts labeled as
> part of the programming process.
> 
> I've never heard anyone express a concern
> or problem about confidentiality.  I can
> only assume that mainline distributers have
> some sort of security in place.
> 

I'd think so as well. It might become a little more dicey when 
production has to go offshore at some point. I sure wish it doesn't have to.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Joerg wrote:
> Thanks for the info. That isn't too expensive. Outsourcing can be a
> concern. Do you think they anonymize the batches far enough so your code
> is safe from potential confidentiality breaches?

If confidentiality is a big concern, don't go through distribution.
There exists a product that contains confidential cryptographic
material. The code image is delivered on physical media direct to the
manufacturer, who has a bonded courier pickup/delivery option.

Last time I had a consumer electronics part programmed through
distribution (in the USA), it was outsourced to some three-man company
in Canada and the files went from distri to programming house by
unencrypted email. This is for a million-piece order, mind you, not
hobbyist quantity. There are no guarantees unless security is in your
contract. Did your distri even sign an NDA with you let alone a
guarantee of code confidentiality?

Hello Lewin,
> 
> If confidentiality is a big concern, don't go through distribution.
> There exists a product that contains confidential cryptographic
> material. The code image is delivered on physical media direct to the
> manufacturer, who has a bonded courier pickup/delivery option.
> 

That would make it complicated and would prbably exclude a lot of lower 
cost manufacturers.


> Last time I had a consumer electronics part programmed through
> distribution (in the USA), it was outsourced to some three-man company
> in Canada and the files went from distri to programming house by
> unencrypted email. This is for a million-piece order, mind you, not
> hobbyist quantity. There are no guarantees unless security is in your
> contract. Did your distri even sign an NDA with you let alone a
> guarantee of code confidentiality?
> 

We aren't quite there yet but they will have to. There would also be 
some prose in there as to them not outsourcing such jobs. No agreement, 
no sale.

The best thing would be if manufacturers would do this. IIRC only 
Microchip offers that service but I am not sure.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Joerg wrote:
> Hello Lewin,
> 
> 
> The best thing would be if manufacturers would do this. IIRC only 
> Microchip offers that service but I am not sure.

Atmel also offers this, and they can unique-label parts for you
too, if you want. [last time I checked]

-jg

The pricing noted earlier is also consistent with my experience,
including marking the parts with your own chosen part number.

I have never had issues with confidentiality for a couple of reasons:

1. I always execute NDAs with any outfit doing programming for me (and
indeed, any distributors that want to know my product roadmap, parts
used etc).

2. Any distributor/rep/<your choise of business name>  that did not
keep each customer's data confidential from the other would soon lose a
lot of business, including mine.

I have never sent programming tasks offshore - I have either had parts
programmed at distribution or done immediately prior to
reflow/installation at the CM. Of course, if I were in the multimillion
device business, I would have to rethink that.

Cheers

PeteS

> > material. The code image is delivered on physical media direct to the
> > manufacturer, who has a bonded courier pickup/delivery option.
> >
>
> That would make it complicated and would prbably exclude a lot of lower
> cost manufacturers.

Note that by "manufacturer" I meant the manufacturer of the IC.

> The best thing would be if manufacturers would do this. IIRC only
> Microchip offers that service but I am not sure.

Most of the chip vendors offer this service. They will also offer
custom part numbering free above certain volumes. Microchip offers
serialization (SQTP) at an inexpensive price, I imagine other vendors
do something similar.