Brad Eckert wrote:> Samuel Tardieu <sam@rfc1149.net> wrote in message news:<87k6su3r3w.fsf@beeblebrox.rfc1149.net>... > >>Anyway, as Guy underlined, the problem is with MSIE. If you are using >>a browser with quality issues, how can you be serious about >>programming? It demonstrates rather poor requirements. > > > Forthers tend to upgrade their computers more slowly, because they > don't need the latest hardware to run their applications. Of maybe > they are better at making do with what they have. > > It's the same thing with car mechanics. Mechanics tend to drive older > cars. I know a mechanic in Mexico that drives something that looks > like he fished it off the sea floor. > > BradWhat do "Forthers" make of the economic benefits of Moore's Law? -- Mike Page BEng(Hons) MIEE www.eclectic-web.co.uk "Ask a Liberal Democrat, while he still knows everything"
PicForth 1.0 is released
Started by ●November 9, 2004
Reply by ●November 12, 20042004-11-12
Reply by ●November 14, 20042004-11-14
"Samuel Tardieu" <sam@rfc1149.net> wrote in message news:874qjzq8k9.fsf@beeblebrox.rfc1149.net...>>>>>> "Rune" == Rune Christensen <rune.christensen@adslhome.dk> writes: > > Rune> index.html.en english version of document index, type text/html, > Rune> language en > > Indeed. It looks like your MSIE browser doesn't like english documents > when several choices are available and your language (Danish?) is not. > > I don't know MSIE, but under Firefox you can configure what languages > you accept and which ones you do prefer. See > > http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ > > (once you've tasted tabbed browsing you can't come back to a browser > unable to do it :-)When I clicked on http://www.rfc1149.net/devel/picforth/ I got taken to http://www.rfc1149.net/devel/picforth.html.en which is OK for me with IE 6. Leon
Reply by ●November 14, 20042004-11-14
Leon Heller wrote:> >When I clicked on > >http://www.rfc1149.net/devel/picforth/ > >I got taken to > >http://www.rfc1149.net/devel/picforth.html.en > >which is OK for me with IE 6.You don't see a graphic covering up the first word ("PicForth")?
Reply by ●November 15, 20042004-11-15
"Guy Macon" <http://www.guymacon.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:10pg0almm9j4597@corp.supernews.com...> > Leon Heller wrote: >> >>When I clicked on >> >>http://www.rfc1149.net/devel/picforth/ >> >>I got taken to >> >>http://www.rfc1149.net/devel/picforth.html.en >> >>which is OK for me with IE 6. > > You don't see a graphic covering up the first word ("PicForth")? > >Hello Earlier I also had problems with the homepage but now I'm also transferred to the right page. I have not done any changes in IE6 since last post. But the graphic is still covering the H in PICFORTH Cheers Rune
Reply by ●November 17, 20042004-11-17
Gary Chanson wrote:> > "Brad Eckert" <nospaambrad1@tinyboot.com> wrote in message > news:7d4cc56.0411110852.670c0c30@posting.google.com... > > "Gary Chanson" <gchanson@No.Spam.TheWorld.net> wrote in > > message > news:<iLAkd.2911$4U1.1760@trndny05>... > > > > > > Microsoft's motto should be "complex answers to simple > > > problems". > > > > Maybe they have two separate sets of documentation: The > > simple stuff used by their own programmers and the > > obfuscated mess they ship to outside developers. > > Yes and no. They use the same database but there are some > articles which are only available to insiders and bigger > customers (and MVPs). The only real difference seems to be > that the more restricted articles cover things which are less > stable and harder to support. > > They don't intentionally obfuscate anything. They do make > a substantial effort to document as much as possible (within > the limits of what they're willing to support) and make it as > clear as possible. Most of the bug reports I file are on > errors or omissions in the public documentation and > most result in improvements being made. > > Probably the biggest difference between what information > is available to independent developers and insiders is that > insiders have direct access to the source code. Outsiders > (including MVPs) at best get very limited access to it. > I have access to only the source for the core of the operating > system and then only with tools that are almost unusable > (which reminds me that I need to get my smart card renewed). > > If Microsoft developers really did have access to > significantly better documentation, I expect that the quality > of their code would be substantially better. On the other > hand, throwing away numerous levels of complexity would make > even more difference. > > -- > -GJC [MS Windows SDK MVP] > -Software Consultant (Embedded systems and Real Time Controls) > - http://www.mvps.org/ArcaneIncantations/consulting.htm > -gchanson@mvps.orgThe fancy theory of computing gets involved with things like algorithms executing in n log n steps. The less fancy theories are concerned with optimizing compilers, pipelines and clock speeds. But the main limitation to what can be computed is the understanding of programmers. Gary's remarks on Windows documentation are not side issues. They are about the limiting step. Software and hardware will grow until the systems cannot be properly documented. Software development has to stop when programmers can not find bugs fast enough. The large computer companies stop growing when their technical writers can no longer understand what their engineers and code writers are doing. Free software advocates have spent decades showing that making all the source code available is absolutely necessary. The next important step is seeing that the clarity of that source code is also vital. I wish that wouldn't take so long. Forth started out showing how many levels of complexity of operating systems could be removed. Why does anybody need the multimegabytes of Windows to program something small and simple like a Pic controller? Its because very few people learn how to use Forth. And many Forth developers are trying to use Forth as part of a giant software system instead of using it to create a simple software system. -- Michael Coughlin m-coughlin@comcast.net Cambridge, MA USA
Reply by ●December 3, 20042004-12-03
"m-coughlin" <m-coughlin@comcast.net> wrote> Software development has to stop when programmers can > not find bugs fast enough.Rule 1: Knowing when to call it quits and go home: You create two bugs for every one you fix. Rule 2: If all the bugs are fixed the software is obsolete.> Why does anybody need the multimegabytes of Windows to program > something small and simple like a Pic controller?You don't if you still have all the old DOS based Parallax tools ... Strunk was wrong, the mantra is "Complicate, complicate, complicate". -- Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics. Remove spaces etc. to reply: n o lindan at net com dot com psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/
Reply by ●December 4, 20042004-12-04
"Nicholas O. Lindan" <see@sig.com> wrote in message news:<YJ0sd.2353$714.31@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...> Strunk was wrong, the mantra is "Complicate, complicate, complicate".No, he got the mantra right. You wouldn't need to keep repeating the mantra if it was the way that things went in the ordinary run of things.
Reply by ●December 5, 20042004-12-05
Dr. Bruce R. McFarling wrote:> "Nicholas O. Lindan" <see@sig.com> wrote in message news:<YJ0sd.2353$714.31@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>... > > >>Strunk was wrong, the mantra is "Complicate, complicate, complicate". > > > No, he got the mantra right. You wouldn't need to keep repeating > the mantra if it was the way that things went in the ordinary > run of things.Complication is a close relative to entropy: It grows by itself and you have to spend energy to decrease it. -- Tauno Voipio tauno voipio (at) iki fi
