Need advice about starting off 8051 development...

Greetings all 8051 Gurus,

I am familiar with 8051 for some years now.
I even did my graduation project work over it.
That time however all the resources were available
at school and all I used at that time was hand coded ASM and
an universal programmer. How I managed without a board I still
get baffled. ;-)

But now, the fire to develop over 8051 has be kindled again and
I want to relive my old days of 8051 development ;-(

Just for the record, I am already employed as a Software Engineer
in a mobile devices company and this is just an attempt to do certain
things which I like to do in my spare time, or a hobby sort of thing.

So basically my query boils down to the following:

1. How to go about starting off 8051 embedded development?
What HW should I go for? Evaluation Boards? Single Board computers?
Emulators? Programmers? I have reviewed some of these options and have 
shortlisted
Keil and SPJ systems as my final candidates.

2. As far as software is concerned, I have enough free tools and might
even get the full version of Keil uvision. I have also a 8051 simulator 
which I have written myself.

3. Here's my idea about the development. Please correct me if I am wrong 
  in my assumptions.

    1. Write the code and test in some IDE like uvision
    2. Use the Evaluation board to make a prototype.
    3. Test the prototype
    4. After testing it out, make the actual 'stuff', using preferably 
some programmer to burn the code and place the 8051 into the circuit.

     I would basically like your help in choosing the correct stuff for 
all the steps mentioned above. Like the best possible Eval Board for 
step 1. , and the best possible programmer for step 4.
Do I even need a programmer? Can't I make my own? I know I can, but 
would like to know whether it is really feasible and things like that.

Thanks for all your patience for going through such a lengthy mail and
hoping to hear from the embedded community soon!

Thanks again and regards,
Seemanta

On Wed, 31 May 2006 19:00:02 +0530, in comp.arch.embedded Seemanta
Dutta <noone@slashdevslashnull.net> wrote:

>Greetings all 8051 Gurus,
>
>I am familiar with 8051 for some years now.
>I even did my graduation project work over it.
>That time however all the resources were available
>at school and all I used at that time was hand coded ASM and
>an universal programmer. How I managed without a board I still
>get baffled. ;-)
>
>But now, the fire to develop over 8051 has be kindled again and
>I want to relive my old days of 8051 development ;-(
>
>Just for the record, I am already employed as a Software Engineer
>in a mobile devices company and this is just an attempt to do certain
>things which I like to do in my spare time, or a hobby sort of thing.
>
>So basically my query boils down to the following:
>
>1. How to go about starting off 8051 embedded development?
>What HW should I go for? Evaluation Boards? Single Board computers?
>Emulators? Programmers? I have reviewed some of these options and have 
>shortlisted
>Keil and SPJ systems as my final candidates.
>
>2. As far as software is concerned, I have enough free tools and might
>even get the full version of Keil uvision. I have also a 8051 simulator 
>which I have written myself.
>
>3. Here's my idea about the development. Please correct me if I am wrong 
>  in my assumptions.
>
>    1. Write the code and test in some IDE like uvision
>    2. Use the Evaluation board to make a prototype.
>    3. Test the prototype
>    4. After testing it out, make the actual 'stuff', using preferably 
>some programmer to burn the code and place the 8051 into the circuit.
>
>     I would basically like your help in choosing the correct stuff for 
>all the steps mentioned above. Like the best possible Eval Board for 
>step 1. , and the best possible programmer for step 4.
>Do I even need a programmer? Can't I make my own? I know I can, but 
>would like to know whether it is really feasible and things like that.
>
>Thanks for all your patience for going through such a lengthy mail and
>hoping to hear from the embedded community soon!
>
>Thanks again and regards,
>Seemanta
As a perpetual novice in 8051,
I use the raisonance 8051  c compiler, it works, its clunky, the 4K
limited version is free.

I make my own "deveolpment systems" out of perf/strip  board and a ZIF
socket for the 8051  and 74HC glue logic, I can make one in a morning,
using kynar wire, but longer if I need extra memory etc.

I still use a Kits123 programmer from Dontronics, absolutely excellent

Get a good soldering iron, quality side cutters etc, a current limited
bench power supply, is my best advice, and a scope for checking the
hardware, otherwise you waste hours wondering if its a hardware or
software problem 


martin

Silabs has some nice 8051's: single clock per machine cycle, up to 100
mhz speed, some devices have usb and up to 128K of internal flash.

They have a cheap usb stick you can get very cheap to try it out.

Keil is way out front on 8051 software tools if you can afford them.
SDCC is an open source compiler for those of us who can't.

Seemanta Dutta wrote:
> Greetings all 8051 Gurus,
> 
> I am familiar with 8051 for some years now.
> I even did my graduation project work over it.
> That time however all the resources were available
> at school and all I used at that time was hand coded ASM and
> an universal programmer. How I managed without a board I still
> get baffled. ;-)
> 
> But now, the fire to develop over 8051 has be kindled again and
> I want to relive my old days of 8051 development ;-(
> 
> Just for the record, I am already employed as a Software Engineer
> in a mobile devices company and this is just an attempt to do certain
> things which I like to do in my spare time, or a hobby sort of thing.
> 
> So basically my query boils down to the following:
> 
> 1. How to go about starting off 8051 embedded development?
> What HW should I go for? Evaluation Boards? Single Board computers?
> Emulators? Programmers? I have reviewed some of these options and have 
> shortlisted
> Keil and SPJ systems as my final candidates.
> 
> 2. As far as software is concerned, I have enough free tools and might
> even get the full version of Keil uvision. I have also a 8051 simulator 
> which I have written myself.
> 
> 3. Here's my idea about the development. Please correct me if I am wrong 
>  in my assumptions.
> 
>    1. Write the code and test in some IDE like uvision
>    2. Use the Evaluation board to make a prototype.
>    3. Test the prototype
>    4. After testing it out, make the actual 'stuff', using preferably 
> some programmer to burn the code and place the 8051 into the circuit.
> 
>     I would basically like your help in choosing the correct stuff for 
> all the steps mentioned above. Like the best possible Eval Board for 
> step 1. , and the best possible programmer for step 4.
> Do I even need a programmer? Can't I make my own? I know I can, but 
> would like to know whether it is really feasible and things like that.
> 
> Thanks for all your patience for going through such a lengthy mail and
> hoping to hear from the embedded community soon!
> 
> Thanks again and regards,
> Seemanta

Keil has a 2K eval Version.
Metalink has a free assembler.
There are some cheap boards on eBay.
Phillips  and amel make chips with built in bootloaders.  just a MAX232 
and the free PC software needed.

Look on www.8052.com for more links and info.

Seemanta Dutta wrote:
> Greetings all 8051 Gurus,
> 
> I am familiar with 8051 for some years now.
> I even did my graduation project work over it.
> That time however all the resources were available
> at school and all I used at that time was hand coded ASM and
> an universal programmer. How I managed without a board I still
> get baffled. ;-)
> 
> But now, the fire to develop over 8051 has be kindled again and
> I want to relive my old days of 8051 development ;-(
> 
> Just for the record, I am already employed as a Software Engineer
> in a mobile devices company and this is just an attempt to do certain
> things which I like to do in my spare time, or a hobby sort of thing.
> 
> So basically my query boils down to the following:
> 
> 1. How to go about starting off 8051 embedded development?
> What HW should I go for? Evaluation Boards? Single Board computers?
> Emulators? Programmers? I have reviewed some of these options and have 
> shortlisted
> Keil and SPJ systems as my final candidates.
> 
> 2. As far as software is concerned, I have enough free tools and might
> even get the full version of Keil uvision. I have also a 8051 simulator 
> which I have written myself.
> 
> 3. Here's my idea about the development. Please correct me if I am wrong 
>  in my assumptions.
> 
>    1. Write the code and test in some IDE like uvision
>    2. Use the Evaluation board to make a prototype.
>    3. Test the prototype
>    4. After testing it out, make the actual 'stuff', using preferably 
> some programmer to burn the code and place the 8051 into the circuit.
> 
>     I would basically like your help in choosing the correct stuff for 
> all the steps mentioned above. Like the best possible Eval Board for 
> step 1. , and the best possible programmer for step 4.
> Do I even need a programmer? Can't I make my own? I know I can, but 
> would like to know whether it is really feasible and things like that.
> 
> Thanks for all your patience for going through such a lengthy mail and
> hoping to hear from the embedded community soon!
> 
> Thanks again and regards,
> Seemanta

don't forget the ( totally ) free SDCC C compiler

Hello ,

   8051 is aound for 20 years! Its time you switch to ARM/MIPS. Its
easy to develop applications for 8051 using keil! Try doing the same
using ARM, you learn about the ARM processor!

Best Regards,
Vivekanandan M

Seemanta Dutta wrote:
> Greetings all 8051 Gurus,
>
> I am familiar with 8051 for some years now.
> I even did my graduation project work over it.
> That time however all the resources were available
> at school and all I used at that time was hand coded ASM and
> an universal programmer. How I managed without a board I still
> get baffled. ;-)
>
> But now, the fire to develop over 8051 has be kindled again and
> I want to relive my old days of 8051 development ;-(
>
> Just for the record, I am already employed as a Software Engineer
> in a mobile devices company and this is just an attempt to do certain
> things which I like to do in my spare time, or a hobby sort of thing.
>
> So basically my query boils down to the following:
>
> 1. How to go about starting off 8051 embedded development?
> What HW should I go for? Evaluation Boards? Single Board computers?
> Emulators? Programmers? I have reviewed some of these options and have
> shortlisted
> Keil and SPJ systems as my final candidates.
>
> 2. As far as software is concerned, I have enough free tools and might
> even get the full version of Keil uvision. I have also a 8051 simulator
> which I have written myself.
>
> 3. Here's my idea about the development. Please correct me if I am wrong
>   in my assumptions.
>
>     1. Write the code and test in some IDE like uvision
>     2. Use the Evaluation board to make a prototype.
>     3. Test the prototype
>     4. After testing it out, make the actual 'stuff', using preferably
> some programmer to burn the code and place the 8051 into the circuit.
>
>      I would basically like your help in choosing the correct stuff for
> all the steps mentioned above. Like the best possible Eval Board for
> step 1. , and the best possible programmer for step 4.
> Do I even need a programmer? Can't I make my own? I know I can, but
> would like to know whether it is really feasible and things like that.
>
> Thanks for all your patience for going through such a lengthy mail and
> hoping to hear from the embedded community soon!

RAMtron has just announced that they have integrated an 8051 with their
FRAM. It's got some interesting features like MAC for DSP.

Leon

In article <e5main$tbe$2@news.unina.it>, mmm <pippo@pippo.it> writes
>Seemanta Dutta wrote:
>> Greetings all 8051 Gurus,
>> 
>> I am familiar with 8051 for some years now.
>> I even did my graduation project work over it.
>> That time however all the resources were available
>> at school and all I used at that time was hand coded ASM and
>> an universal programmer. How I managed without a board I still
>> get baffled. ;-)
>> 
>> But now, the fire to develop over 8051 has be kindled again and
>> I want to relive my old days of 8051 development ;-(
>> 
>> Just for the record, I am already employed as a Software Engineer
>> in a mobile devices company and this is just an attempt to do certain
>> things which I like to do in my spare time, or a hobby sort of thing.
>> 
>> So basically my query boils down to the following:
>> 
>> 1. How to go about starting off 8051 embedded development?
>> What HW should I go for? Evaluation Boards? Single Board computers?
>> Emulators? Programmers? I have reviewed some of these options and have 
>> shortlisted
>> Keil and SPJ systems as my final candidates.
>> 
>> 2. As far as software is concerned, I have enough free tools and might
>> even get the full version of Keil uvision. I have also a 8051 simulator 
>> which I have written myself.
>> 
>> 3. Here's my idea about the development. Please correct me if I am wrong 
>>  in my assumptions.
>> 
>>    1. Write the code and test in some IDE like uvision
>>    2. Use the Evaluation board to make a prototype.
>>    3. Test the prototype
>>    4. After testing it out, make the actual 'stuff', using preferably 
>> some programmer to burn the code and place the 8051 into the circuit.
>> 
>>     I would basically like your help in choosing the correct stuff for 
>> all the steps mentioned above. Like the best possible Eval Board for 
>> step 1. , and the best possible programmer for step 4.
>> Do I even need a programmer? Can't I make my own? I know I can, but 
>> would like to know whether it is really feasible and things like that.
>> 
>> Thanks for all your patience for going through such a lengthy mail and
>> hoping to hear from the embedded community soon!
>> 
>> Thanks again and regards,
>> Seemanta
>
>don't forget the ( totally ) free SDCC C compiler

I would... there are eval versions of most decent compilers out there.
Keil, IAR etc   

Keil holds about 80% of the 51 market so there is a LOT more support and
example code about for it. It also has a VERY good simulator.


 
-- 
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England     /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org      www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

In article <1149235086.462378.69070@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
Vivekanandan M <vivekm@sankhya.com> writes
>Hello ,
>
>   8051 is aound for 20 years! Its time you switch to ARM/MIPS. 

Not it' not. Not all embedded systems need an ARM or a MIPS. Thoug if
all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail...

>Its
>easy to develop applications for 8051 using keil! 

Agree. Keil is the best choice for 51

>Try doing the same
>using ARM, you learn about the ARM processor!

Hmmmm Arm is a different kettle of fish. 


-- 
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England     /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org      www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

>>don't forget the ( totally ) free SDCC C compiler
>
> I would... there are eval versions of most decent compilers out there.
> Keil, IAR etc
>
> Keil holds about 80% of the 51 market so there is a LOT more support and
> example code about for it. It also has a VERY good simulator.
>
>
Chris, why this knee-jerk reaction every time someone dares to mention SDCC? 
Do you have some vested interested in turning people off from SDCC?

You need to be aware of it's limitations but SDCC is a valid and useful 
thing to have out there.

Andrew