FPGA board for USB experiments?

Thorsten Trenz <nq@trenz-electronic.de> wrote:

>Dave Farrance wrote:
>> I'll use another USB port for that, and I'll put together a transceiver
>> board to handle the signal-levels so that I can route the raw data
>> stream directly to the FPGA I/O. Such a USB interface would be
>> speed-limited, but I'm not worried about that.
>
>take a look here:
>http://shop.trenz-electronic.de/catalog/default.php?cPath=1
>
>I think, the Spartan-3 Micromodule with USB UTMI Phy is exactly what you 
>want.

Ah yes. Thanks. That's the most promising so far. The Trendz TE-XC3S
micromodule with TE-0143 carrier board and TE-0149 programmer comes to
$173. I can live with a parallel-port programmer, although I rather
have USB or serial-port programming.

-- 
Dave Farrance

Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> wrote:

>Ah yes. Thanks. That's the most promising so far. The Trendz TE-XC3S
>micromodule with TE-0143 carrier board and TE-0149 programmer comes to
>$173. I can live with a parallel-port programmer, although I rather
>have USB or serial-port programming.

Whoops, I mangled your name, Herr Trenz. Sorry about that.

-- 
Dave Farrance

Dave

Have a look at this module 
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/moelbryn/modules/usb_ps2.html in conjunction 
with our Raggedstone1 product. Basically the module is a voltage limiter(bus 
switch) on the USB lines leaving the logic to be implemented in the FPGA.

-- 
John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd. - Home of Raggedstone1. The Low Cost Spartan-3 Board.
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk


"Dave Farrance" <DaveFarrance@OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:29t2821lqgte6hui7j4vqsjs3qgid4d212@4ax.com...
> Hi. I want to get my brain around USB interfaces, how to design the
> hardware and the software, and eventually to find what economic
> hardware solutions are available, and how USB hardware interfaces can
> be arranged to make the best use of generic USB drivers to minimise
> problems associated with driver installation.
>
> It's not something that I've been able to investigate in the
> time-limited projects that I've done as an electronic designer, and so
> I've tended to use RS485 interfaces or other alternatives. I've decided
> that It's high time that I understood USB, so I'll pick up the
> knowledge by occasionally dabbling with it at home over a period of a
> few months which is something that works OK for me.
>
> I'm not very good at reading screeds of technical description and
> retaining it in my memory, so I need to get my hands dirty with some
> experimental design and coding that I can interact with to get the
> concepts anchored in my mind. I'm reasonably competent in C, C++, VHDL
> and Verilog, and can code quite swiftly.
>
> To kick off, I'd like to get an FPGA board with a RAM-based FPGA that
> can be configured via a serial or USB cable to a laptop. For my
> experiments, the board also needs a USB interface that passes the raw
> USB data stream directly to the FPGA, or it should be easily
> convertible to do so. The FPGA needs to be big enough to hold
> open-source HDL USB interfaces and to hold models that mimic the
> interfaces to common USB equipment like flash keys, printers and
> modems. Any suggestions? I'm aiming to keep the cost reasonable - $100
> to $150 say - and I'm prepared to put up with the limitations of free
> software such as the speed-crippled Modelsim HDL simulator.
>
> -- 
> Dave Farrance 

"John Adair" <removethisthenleavejea@replacewithcompanyname.co.uk>
wrote:

>Have a look at this module 
>http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/moelbryn/modules/usb_ps2.html in conjunction 
>with our Raggedstone1 product. Basically the module is a voltage limiter(bus 
>switch) on the USB lines leaving the logic to be implemented in the FPGA.

Thanks. I'm a bit confused by the "shop" section. The RS1-400 and the
RS1-1500 both have the same description including:

"FPGA: XilinxTM SpartanTM-3 FPGA, in FG456 package, fitted to the
board. Available with XC3S400 fitted."

I presume that it should be the XC3S1500 in the latter case.

Also the wording is ambiguous. I presume that "Available with XC3S400
fitted" does mean that the FPGA *is* fitted for the that price, rather
than being an option?

-- 
Dave Farrance

Yes chips are fitted. The RS1-1500 has a XC3S1500.

I will see if we can get the text a little less ambiguous. There are a few 
areas like this that we need to tidy up on the website.

John Adair
Enterpoint Ltd. - Home of Broaddown2. The Ultimate Spartan3 Development 
Board.
http://www.enterpoint.co.uk


"Dave Farrance" <DaveFarrance@OMiTTHiSyahooANDTHiS.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:fsla82paqfo8htedeorljamtjn2f0090hn@4ax.com...
> "John Adair" <removethisthenleavejea@replacewithcompanyname.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>Have a look at this module
>>http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/moelbryn/modules/usb_ps2.html in conjunction
>>with our Raggedstone1 product. Basically the module is a voltage 
>>limiter(bus
>>switch) on the USB lines leaving the logic to be implemented in the FPGA.
>
> Thanks. I'm a bit confused by the "shop" section. The RS1-400 and the
> RS1-1500 both have the same description including:
>
> "FPGA: XilinxTM SpartanTM-3 FPGA, in FG456 package, fitted to the
> board. Available with XC3S400 fitted."
>
> I presume that it should be the XC3S1500 in the latter case.
>
> Also the wording is ambiguous. I presume that "Available with XC3S400
> fitted" does mean that the FPGA *is* fitted for the that price, rather
> than being an option?
>
> -- 
> Dave Farrance 

Dave Farrance skrev:

> Uwe Bonnes <bon@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:
>
> >In comp.arch.fpga Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@omitthisyahooandthis.co.uk> wrote:
> >> I'll use another USB port for that, and I'll put together a transceiver
> >> board to handle the signal-levels so that I can route the raw data
> >> stream directly to the FPGA I/O. Such a USB interface would be
> >> speed-limited, but I'm not worried about that.
> >
> >The interface is not only speed limited, but also missing needed
> >functionality, at least for USB2. USB+ and USB- need to be evaluated in many
> >ways, not possible with a normal FPGA input. There are chips implementing the
> >physical access (UTMI).
>
> Thanks. I see. If I built an transceiver board myself, it'd have to be
> for USB 1.1 with a basic transceiver chip such as the MAX3346E which
> I'd run at low speed. I have managed to solder 14-pin TSSOP packages to
> prototype boards in the past, although I'd rather find a DIP chip if I
> could.
>
> --
> Dave Farrance


If it is a just for fun hack kinda thing you don't need a transciever.
I've implemented the
opencores usb core in an FPGA using just two normal IOs and a pullup
connected
to a usb connector and a little fpga logic to simultate the phy.
got as far as getting plugged and enumerated on windows, never used it
for anything though

-Lasse

On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:02:18 -0700, langwadt wrote:

> 
> Dave Farrance skrev:
> 
>> Uwe Bonnes <bon@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:
>>
>> >In comp.arch.fpga Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@omitthisyahooandthis.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> I'll use another USB port for that, and I'll put together a transceiver
>> >> board to handle the signal-levels so that I can route the raw data
>> >> stream directly to the FPGA I/O. Such a USB interface would be
>> >> speed-limited, but I'm not worried about that.
>> >
>> >The interface is not only speed limited, but also missing needed
>> >functionality, at least for USB2. USB+ and USB- need to be evaluated in many
>> >ways, not possible with a normal FPGA input. There are chips implementing the
>> >physical access (UTMI).
>>
>> Thanks. I see. If I built an transceiver board myself, it'd have to be
>> for USB 1.1 with a basic transceiver chip such as the MAX3346E which
>> I'd run at low speed. I have managed to solder 14-pin TSSOP packages to
>> prototype boards in the past, although I'd rather find a DIP chip if I
>> could.
>>
>> --
>> Dave Farrance
> 
> 
> If it is a just for fun hack kinda thing you don't need a transciever.
> I've implemented the
> opencores usb core in an FPGA using just two normal IOs and a pullup
> connected
> to a usb connector and a little fpga logic to simultate the phy.
> got as far as getting plugged and enumerated on windows, never used it
> for anything though
> 


Got VHDL?

Thanks!
Rich

langwadt@ieee.org wrote:

>Dave Farrance skrev:
>> Thanks. I see. If I built an transceiver board myself, it'd have to be
>> for USB 1.1 with a basic transceiver chip such as the MAX3346E which
>> I'd run at low speed. I have managed to solder 14-pin TSSOP packages to
>> prototype boards in the past, although I'd rather find a DIP chip if I
>> could.
>
>If it is a just for fun hack kinda thing you don't need a transciever.
>I've implemented the
>opencores usb core in an FPGA using just two normal IOs and a pullup
>connected
>to a usb connector and a little fpga logic to simultate the phy.
>got as far as getting plugged and enumerated on windows, never used it
>for anything though

Thanks. I'll bear that in mind.

Actually, I've just remembered that there are cheap tssop-to-dip
adaptors available, which are easy to solder. Just run some solder
along the pins, and wick off the excess with solder-braid.

I'll probably use a pre-built interface like the Enterpoint one
mentioned elsewhere in this thread, though.

-- 
Dave Farrance

Rich Grise wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 14:02:18 -0700, langwadt wrote:
>
> >
> > Dave Farrance skrev:
> >
> >> Uwe Bonnes <bon@hertz.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In comp.arch.fpga Dave Farrance <DaveFarrance@omitthisyahooandthis.co.uk> wrote:
> >> >> I'll use another USB port for that, and I'll put together a transceiver
> >> >> board to handle the signal-levels so that I can route the raw data
> >> >> stream directly to the FPGA I/O. Such a USB interface would be
> >> >> speed-limited, but I'm not worried about that.
> >> >
> >> >The interface is not only speed limited, but also missing needed
> >> >functionality, at least for USB2. USB+ and USB- need to be evaluated in many
> >> >ways, not possible with a normal FPGA input. There are chips implementing the
> >> >physical access (UTMI).
> >>
> >> Thanks. I see. If I built an transceiver board myself, it'd have to be
> >> for USB 1.1 with a basic transceiver chip such as the MAX3346E which
> >> I'd run at low speed. I have managed to solder 14-pin TSSOP packages to
> >> prototype boards in the past, although I'd rather find a DIP chip if I
> >> could.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Dave Farrance
> >
> >
> > If it is a just for fun hack kinda thing you don't need a transciever.
> > I've implemented the
> > opencores usb core in an FPGA using just two normal IOs and a pullup
> > connected
> > to a usb connector and a little fpga logic to simultate the phy.
> > got as far as getting plugged and enumerated on windows, never used it
> > for anything though
> >
>
>
> Got VHDL?
>
> Thanks!
> Rich


Nope Verilog ;)

can't find it at the moment but was something like this at the top
level.

inout Dplus;   // pin connected to USB D+
inout Dminus;  // pin connected to USB D-

wire txdp; // Dplus  data (from usb_phy)
wire txdn; // Dminus data (from usb_phy)
wire txoe; // output enable for Dplus/Dminus  (from usb_phy)
wire rxd ; // data from differential receiver (to usb_phy)
wire rxdp; // data from Dplus  (to usb_phy)
wire rxdn; // data from Dminus (to usb_phy)

assign Dplus  = (txoe ? txdp : 1'bz);
assign Dminus = (txoe ? txdn : 1'bz);

assign rxdp = Dplus;
assign rxdn = Dminus;

assign rxd  = Dplus; // no differential receiver, so just use Dplus and
hope

-Lasse

"John Adair"  wrote:

>Have a look at this module 
>http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/moelbryn/modules/usb_ps2.html in conjunction 
>with our Raggedstone1 product. Basically the module is a voltage limiter(bus 
>switch) on the USB lines leaving the logic to be implemented in the FPGA.

Thanks to everybody that helped me in this thread. I've decided to buy
the above product.

-- 
Dave Farrance