Hardware book like "Code Complete"?

Mike Treseler wrote:
> Eric wrote:
> 
> 
>>But if anyone writes a book like this it will fly off the shelves!
> 
> 
> A few hundred copies would fly off the shelves.
> 
> There's probably about 10,000 digital designers
> in the US. Not all of those do hardware description
> and not all of those write their own RTL.
> Those are not numbers that would excite
> a major publisher.

It can't justify the cost and delay of hard-copy but
could easily be sold as a pdf. Forget the idea of
publishing a single work. This should be a work
in progress that is always adding new chapters and
ideals and evolving with the industry.



> Writing and editing a book is two long years
> of work, whatever the subject.
> 
>             -- Mike Treseler


Two long man years.  Quadruple that if you have multiple
authors that need to coordinate their works and then
divide by the number of authors on the project.

Many hands make light work. Get a couple of dozen of
experienced designers, a bunch of proof reading fact
checkers and one decent editor and you  got yourself
an open source book writing project.

Put it out on sourceforge for free and make it useful for any
digital designer at any stage in their career or hobby.Do
a really good job and it can become the "bible" of the
industry that everyone has in the library.


Do we have the critical mass to pull something like this off?


Lets do a survey.  If we did a cooperative book on digital
design guidelines then what chapters would you like to see
and or contribute.


my list:


1)  Reset systems and how they work.

2)  Designing logic for scan testing (atpg)

3)  Designing bist test logic

4)  Designing and using jtag test logic

5)  Designing and using in-chip diagnostic and debugging logic





John Eaton

> My impression is that hardware people don't like to write much, and
> even if they do, they don't have time to sit down and document all of
> the important "big issues" that new people need to learn in order to be
> effective.
> 
> But if anyone writes a book like this it will fly off the shelves!

Care to estimate the size of the market?

I.e. how much would the author expect to make, given typical publishing contracts?

(I've long wanted to write such a book, but have trouble with the
business case - i.e. persuading my wife.  And, of course, I cannot
write it as an employee of Intel.)

Andy Glew wrote:

> Care to estimate the size of the market?

2000-4000 copies over 2 years.
> 
> I.e. how much would the author expect to make, given typical publishing contracts?

Maybe $4 per book.

> (I've long wanted to write such a book, but have trouble with the
> business case 

There isn't one.
You would have to do it for love, not money.

> And, of course, I cannot
> write it as an employee of Intel.

I expect that would be negotiable.
RTL design is hardly proprietary.

       -- Mike Treseler

At least one.  I'd buy it.   ;-).

Suggestion:  Do it like the guy who wrote "Thinking in JAVA" did.  As he
finished a chapter, he posted it on his website for people to review.   He
got tons of corrections and feedback, which he then used to update the
chapter.   At the end of it all, he published a hardcopy and to his surprise
found out he sold more than expected - because everyone who had read it
online wanted a copy on his/her desk, and because it was online originally
it was highly anticipated when it was actually published.

Seems counter-intuitive, but I believe it would work for a tome such as
this... (and if you did it right, you could generate a few bucks before it
every gets published, wink-wink, nudge-nudge, hint-hint,
know-what-I-mean--know-what-I-mean?).

Regards,
   Dean

"Andy Glew" <first.last@employer.domain> wrote in message
news:peyp8xmjgc51.fsf@PXPL8591.amr.corp.intel.com...
> > My impression is that hardware people don't like to write much, and
> > even if they do, they don't have time to sit down and document all of
> > the important "big issues" that new people need to learn in order to be
> > effective.
> >
> > But if anyone writes a book like this it will fly off the shelves!
>
> Care to estimate the size of the market?
>
> I.e. how much would the author expect to make, given typical publishing
contracts?
>
> (I've long wanted to write such a book, but have trouble with the
> business case - i.e. persuading my wife.  And, of course, I cannot
> write it as an employee of Intel.)

[snip]

I think what Dean means to say is that he knows an excellent, reputable
website that would put something online and attract a lot of good
readers : )

And if you do a good job, I bet you could persuade Intel to start
buying up copies in bulk for NCGs.

DK

> Many hands make light work. Get a couple of dozen of
> experienced designers, a bunch of proof reading fact
> checkers and one decent editor and you  got yourself
> an open source book writing project.
>
> Put it out on sourceforge for free and make it useful for any
> digital designer at any stage in their career or hobby.Do
> a really good job and it can become the "bible" of the
> industry that everyone has in the library.
>
Certainly an interesting idea.
>
> Do we have the critical mass to pull something like this off?
>
Always a big question...the other important question is finding the
'leader' to prod this along to get it going in the first place.

KJ

On 24 Jul 2006 10:12:42 -0700, Andy Glew <first.last@employer.domain> wrote:
>> My impression is that hardware people don't like to write much, and
>> even if they do, they don't have time to sit down and document all of
>> the important "big issues" that new people need to learn in order to be
>> effective.
>> 
>> But if anyone writes a book like this it will fly off the shelves!
>
> Care to estimate the size of the market?

I can't guess that.

> I.e. how much would the author expect to make, given typical publishing contracts?
>
> (I've long wanted to write such a book, but have trouble with the
> business case - i.e. persuading my wife.  And, of course, I cannot
> write it as an employee of Intel.)

From the software world, I suggest that you take a look at Scott Meyers
web site: http://www.aristeia.com/authorAdvice_frames.html

A bientot
Paul
-- 
Paul Floyd                 http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth)
Surgery: ennobled Gerald.

Hi all,

For I think software engineer is more near to the application, they
"may think more thank hardware engineer".

And "software engineering" is a research topic (they have a lot of
methodology like design pattern).  But I haven't find any book named
"hardware engineering" (and hardware design and verification method is
based on software experience, for example, SystemVerilog is something
like C++).

Anyone finish a good book about "hardware engineering" will be known by
hardware engineer all of the world. Thanks!

Davy

Davy wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Is there some hardware RTL book like "Code Complete" by Steve
> McConnell? 
> 
> Thanks! 
> Davy

In article <peyp8xmjgc51.fsf@PXPL8591.amr.corp.intel.com>, 
first.last@employer.domain says...
> > But if anyone writes a book like this it will fly off the shelves!
> 
> Care to estimate the size of the market?

I don't know about hardware books, but for a specialist
book 10,000 copies over the lifetime of the book is a
bestseller!

A first printing may be something like 1,000-2,500
books I believe.  Many (probably most?) don't make it
past a first printing.
 

> I.e. how much would the author expect to make, given typical publishing contracts?

About 15% in royalties.

 
> (I've long wanted to write such a book, but have trouble with the
> business case - i.e. persuading my wife.  And, of course, I cannot
> write it as an employee of Intel.)

There's no business in it.  For the great majority, writing
specialist books is a losing proposition; you'd make more
money flipping burgers during the time it would take you to
write the book.  You write a (specialist) book because you
have a burning need to write one.

The only way there's business in it is if the book is picked
up as a textbook at lots of universities around the world or
is on some universally interesting topic.

Knuth, Hennessy and Patterson, Foley et al, and McConnell
have probably made good money from their books, but they are
the exceptions.

-- 
Christer Ericson
http://realtimecollisiondetection.net/

Hi Christer,
I bought Knuth's books and McConnell's Pentium story. But I don't know
Hennessy and Patterson. What are their popular books?

Thank you.

Weng