HC11/C++ compiler

I believe the Imagecraft ICC11 has a 30 day trial period and licenses
for $99. Also, if you find an older copy of IC 3.x it has a firmware
configuration for the MIT 6270 board. Version 3.2 was used in the
botball competitions in 2000. This was a license version, I believe the
contact information is here: http://www.newtonlabs.com/ic/ IC would be
by far the easiest startup path for your board. It is an interpreter
however, so loops are measured in tens of milliseconds for even simple
counting loops. Probably not the reaction rate you want for ABS.

-----Original Message-----
From: m... [mailto:m...] On Behalf
Of Jessica
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 2:26 PM
To: m...
Subject: [m68HC11] Re: HC11/C++ compiler

Thank you for the info. I'm currently reading this book:
http://www.amazon.
com/gp/product/0131129848/sr=8-
4/qid53678968/ref=sr_1_4/102-6331058-3490508?ie=UTF8 and it also
gives a lot of info on programming in assembly language. I'm slowly
getting a grasp on it but I'm a little slow on the uptake anyway LOL.

Brian

--- In m68HC11@yahoogroups .com,
"Jack Donoghue" wrote:
>
> Brian, there is an EXCELLENT book on the HC11. It's a book
called, "The 68HC11
> Microcontroller". The author's name is Greenfield and the
publisher is Sanders
> College Publishing. I don't know if you can get it on Amazon, but
it's a great
> source for programming the HC11 with ASM.
>
> Maybe someone at MIT has a copy of it or you could get it with an
intralibrary
> loan.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Jack Donoghue
> South Boston, MA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jessica"
> To: .com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:50 AM
> Subject: [m68HC11] Re: HC11/C++ compiler
> > Thank you very much for the info. The hardest part about finding
> > stuff online is searching the right keywords! Using your
keywords, I
> > found a couple that sound like they'll work and look forward to
> > trying them out when I finish assembling the board.
> >
> > The board itself is a 6.270 originally developed by MIT. I
believe
> > this board is also a predecessor of the Handy board you mentioned
> > but I could be mistaken. I received the kit from one of my
> > professors who was involved in one of the earlier robot design
> > competitions. I guess this was an extra kit that was never used
so I
> > ended up with it. I also have a new HC16 evaluation board that
I'll
> > have to play with as well. I'm a Mech. Engineer NOT a software
guy
> > and my programming skills are limited to C++, VB, php, and HTML
so
> > this will be a learning experience for sure.
> >
> > Thanks again for your help.
> > Brian
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In m68HC11@yahoogroups .com,
"Jim Peterson" wrote:
> >>
> >> I havent tried any of them, but a google search for +GNU +HC11
> > +"C "
> >> produces some very usable looking leads. I think c++ is asking a
> > lot of
> >> a 32K memory module. If what you are really asking for is a high
> > level
> >> language, I have tested this java tool on the handyboard HC11
> > robotics
> >> controller. I don't know how hard it will be to transform the
> > handyboard
> >> based library functions to your board, but this is a reduced
Java
> >> virtual machine that runs in the HC11 among other
microprocessors..
> >> http://www.rtjcom.
com/main.php?p=home.
> >>
> >> Hope that helps,
> >> Jim
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: m68HC11@yahoogroups .com
[mailto:m68HC11@yahoogroups .com]
On
> > Behalf
> >> Of Jessica
> >> Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 7:06 PM
> >> To: m68HC11@yahoogroups .com
> >> Subject: [m68HC11] Re: HC11/C++ compiler
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> No, this is not a JOKE. This is a self-funded project and the
HC11
> >> was given to me by another professor. The price is right and
> > unless
> >> you'd like to donate a newer unit to the cause, this one will do
> >> just fine. The HC11 is more than capable of doing everything I
> > need
> >> it to for this particular project. Programming it is just a
small
> >> part of the project and I am not sure what's available as far as
> >> compilers are concerned, which is why I ASKED.
> >>
> >> If you have anything helpful to say, I'd love to hear it.
> >>
> >> Brian
> >>
> >> --- In m68HC11@yahoogroups 40yahoogroups.com> .com,
> >> BobGardner@ wrote:
> >> >
> >> > New to this forum and microcontrollers. I'm a grad. student
> > who's
> >> > thesis project will involve programming an HC11 and I was
> >> wondering if
> >> > any of you know of a free/cheap compiler for generating code
for
> >> the
> >> > HC11 from a C++ program? I realize the code won't be as
> > efficient
> >> this
> >> > way but in this case, efficiency isn't that big an issue.
> >> > ====================================> >> > Maybe this is a joke? What prof would let you use an obsolete
25
> >> year old
> >> > computer for a thesis? And what makes you think there is a c++
> >> compiler for it?
> >> > How about an AVR? a TI MSP430? an HC12?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Start a New Thread

Thanks again for the reply. After searching google, I actually came
across the ICC11 and installed it. Been playing with it a bit but I
don't exactly know what I'm doing. Once I actually have a piece of
hardware to play with I'm sure it'll start making more sense. The
6.270 board I have is version 2.21 from around 1993 I believe.

Most ABS systems have an average response time of around 100-200
milliseconds and this system actually can be a bit "looser" (for
lack of a better term) than that. The limits will be the response
time of the mechanical components, not the computer itself, which is
usually the case with mechanical systems anyway. As long as the
sampling rate of the inputs is sufficient to monitor rotational
speed up to around 100 Hz (depending on the diameter of the sensor
ring) I should be OK because the pulsed output will be substantially
slower.

Input to the board is a TTL compliant square wave and obviously some
number crunching will be taking place as data is received to convert
frequency to linear or rotational velocity. So with that in mind, I
guess the hardware I use will have to be fast enough to convert Hz
to speed between pulses and compare it to the last speed reading to
look for excessive decelleration compared to the other "wheels" or
compare the last decel. calculation to a rate that exceeds a
predefined number, which would both be a sign of impending lockup.

In short, the sampling rate needs to be around 100 Hz and switching
output is considerably slower. I hope that helps clarify what I'm
attempting to do here! :-)

Brian

--- In m..., "Jim Peterson" wrote:
>
> I believe the Imagecraft ICC11 has a 30 day trial period and
licenses
> for $99. Also, if you find an older copy of IC 3.x it has a
firmware
> configuration for the MIT 6270 board. Version 3.2 was used in the
> botball competitions in 2000. This was a license version, I
believe the
> contact information is here: http://www.newtonlabs.com/ic/ IC
would be
> by far the easiest startup path for your board. It is an
interpreter
> however, so loops are measured in tens of milliseconds for even
simple
> counting loops. Probably not the reaction rate you want for ABS.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: m... [mailto:m...] On
Behalf
> Of Jessica
> Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 2:26 PM
> To: m...
> Subject: [m68HC11] Re: HC11/C++ compiler
>
>
>
> Thank you for the info. I'm currently reading this book:
> http://www.amazon.

> com/gp/product/0131129848/sr=8-
> 4/qid53678968/ref=sr_1_4/102-6331058-3490508?ie=UTF8 and it
also
> gives a lot of info on programming in assembly language. I'm
slowly
> getting a grasp on it but I'm a little slow on the uptake anyway
LOL.
>
> Brian
>
> --- In m68HC11@yahoogroups .com,
> "Jack Donoghue" wrote:
> >
> > Brian, there is an EXCELLENT book on the HC11. It's a book
> called, "The 68HC11
> > Microcontroller". The author's name is Greenfield and the
> publisher is Sanders
> > College Publishing. I don't know if you can get it on Amazon,
but
> it's a great
> > source for programming the HC11 with ASM.
> >
> > Maybe someone at MIT has a copy of it or you could get it with
an
> intralibrary
> > loan.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> > Jack Donoghue
> > South Boston, MA
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jessica"
> > To: .com>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:50 AM
> > Subject: [m68HC11] Re: HC11/C++ compiler
> >
> >
> > > Thank you very much for the info. The hardest part about
finding
> > > stuff online is searching the right keywords! Using your
> keywords, I
> > > found a couple that sound like they'll work and look forward to
> > > trying them out when I finish assembling the board.
> > >
> > > The board itself is a 6.270 originally developed by MIT. I
> believe
> > > this board is also a predecessor of the Handy board you
mentioned
> > > but I could be mistaken. I received the kit from one of my
> > > professors who was involved in one of the earlier robot design
> > > competitions. I guess this was an extra kit that was never
used
> so I
> > > ended up with it. I also have a new HC16 evaluation board that
> I'll
> > > have to play with as well. I'm a Mech. Engineer NOT a software
> guy
> > > and my programming skills are limited to C++, VB, php, and
HTML
> so
> > > this will be a learning experience for sure.
> > >
> > > Thanks again for your help.
> > > Brian
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In m68HC11@yahoogroups 40yahoogroups.com> .com,
> "Jim Peterson" wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I havent tried any of them, but a google search for +GNU +HC11
> > > +"C "
> > >> produces some very usable looking leads. I think c++ is
asking a
> > > lot of
> > >> a 32K memory module. If what you are really asking for is a
high
> > > level
> > >> language, I have tested this java tool on the handyboard HC11
> > > robotics
> > >> controller. I don't know how hard it will be to transform the
> > > handyboard
> > >> based library functions to your board, but this is a reduced
> Java
> > >> virtual machine that runs in the HC11 among other
> microprocessors..
> > >> http://www.rtjcom.
> com/main.php?p=home.
> > >>
> > >> Hope that helps,
> > >> Jim
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: m68HC11@yahoogroups 40yahoogroups.com> .com
> [mailto:m68HC11@yahoogroups 40yahoogroups.com> .com]
> On
> > > Behalf
> > >> Of Jessica
> > >> Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 7:06 PM
> > >> To: m68HC11@yahoogroups 40yahoogroups.com> .com
> > >> Subject: [m68HC11] Re: HC11/C++ compiler
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> No, this is not a JOKE. This is a self-funded project and the
> HC11
> > >> was given to me by another professor. The price is right and
> > > unless
> > >> you'd like to donate a newer unit to the cause, this one will
do
> > >> just fine. The HC11 is more than capable of doing everything I
> > > need
> > >> it to for this particular project. Programming it is just a
> small
> > >> part of the project and I am not sure what's available as far
as
> > >> compilers are concerned, which is why I ASKED.
> > >>
> > >> If you have anything helpful to say, I'd love to hear it.
> > >>
> > >> Brian
> > >>
> > >> --- In m68HC11@yahoogroups > 40yahoogroups.com> .com,
> > >> BobGardner@ wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > New to this forum and microcontrollers. I'm a grad. student
> > > who's
> > >> > thesis project will involve programming an HC11 and I was
> > >> wondering if
> > >> > any of you know of a free/cheap compiler for generating
code
> for
> > >> the
> > >> > HC11 from a C++ program? I realize the code won't be as
> > > efficient
> > >> this
> > >> > way but in this case, efficiency isn't that big an issue.
> > >> > ====================================> > >> > Maybe this is a joke? What prof would let you use an
obsolete
> 25
> > >> year old
> > >> > computer for a thesis? And what makes you think there is a
c++
> > >> compiler for it?
> > >> > How about an AVR? a TI MSP430? an HC12?
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Start a New Thread

Now that you have pinned down the target board and compiler, I bet there are
at least a dozen guys here that would give you at least a couple of hours of
free consulting... use this trick... put your specs for your brake system up
and say "Well, I've decided this measly little 8mhz old fashioned cpu just
cant hack it. My sophisticated control system is too taxing for it. Going to
move to a DSP. This program cant be written to run faster than one loop every
10ms" and in a couple hours, you'll have 3 or 4 working handyboard programs
that will probably blow the doors off a stock detroit ABS module (that probably
does use a DSP). I'll take a stab at it. I use icc11 almost every day. Also,
go look at the technological arts hc11 boards... might give you some
ideas... Start a New Thread

Thanks very much for the offer....I may just take you all up on some
help if I get stuck. I much prefer to do things on my own, even if I
end up doing it the hard way, because I learn the most that way. It
would be easy for me to get an EE or computer science guy to take
care of the problem for me but that wouldn't be much fun now would
it? :-) As an Engineer, I better be able to keep an open mind and
learn on the fly. Granted, the HC11 is old like you all keep me
reminding me, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a great
start for someone like me to learn embedded controls. From what I've
seen while researching online, the HC11 has done some pretty amazing
things and is still used quite often despite the higher performance
options out there so it must not be that bad.

I openly admit that I know squat when it comes to microcontrollers
but once I get into it and find out that the HC11 just doesn't cut
the mustard as far as speed goes, I'll have no choice but to go to a
newer chip. What I learn while getting to that point will no doubt
carry over to the newer chips so I guess this is as good a board to
start with as any.

I'll keep beating my head against the wall for now and hopefully
I'll have a working program here soon. Thanks for all the advice and
patience but we all have to start somewhere.

Brian

--- In m..., BobGardner@... wrote:
>
> Now that you have pinned down the target board and compiler, I bet
there are
> at least a dozen guys here that would give you at least a couple
of hours of
> free consulting... use this trick... put your specs for your brake
system up
> and say "Well, I've decided this measly little 8mhz old fashioned
cpu just
> cant hack it. My sophisticated control system is too taxing for
it. Going to
> move to a DSP. This program cant be written to run faster than
one loop every
> 10ms" and in a couple hours, you'll have 3 or 4 working
handyboard programs
> that will probably blow the doors off a stock detroit ABS module
(that probably
> does use a DSP). I'll take a stab at it. I use icc11 almost every
day. Also,
> go look at the technological arts hc11 boards... might give you
some
> ideas...
>
>

Start a New Thread

On Jul 23, 2006, at 8:21 PM, Jessica wrote:

> It
> would be easy for me to get an EE or computer science guy to take
> care of the problem for me but that wouldn't be much fun now would
> it? :-)

Don't discount the fact you may spend more time explaining and
correcting their work than it would have taken to learn how to do it
yourself.

This sort of thing has put an end to the traditional role of
secretaries. Is much easier to type a letter oneself than to hand
write then proofread a typed version.

> Granted, the HC11 is old like you all keep me
> reminding me, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a great
> start for someone like me to learn embedded controls.

The worst part of the HC11 will be the debug cycle. No monitor ROM
comes close to what an In-Circuit Emulator can do for speedy compile/
crash cycles and for finding where the code behaves differently than
expected. Money can "cure" that problem with purpose built hardware
ICE. Or the selection of newer CPUs with most of the ICE function
built-in.

HC08 or HC12 with $100 P&E BGM adapter have 98% of the functionality
of my old expensive Nohau HC11 emulator.

--
David Kelly N4HHE, d...@HiWAAY.net
=======================================================================Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.

Start a New Thread

Jessica wrote:

I'd prefer you didn't top-post, and *please* cut your quoting down,
ok?

> Thanks again for the reply. After searching google, I actually came
> across the ICC11 and installed it. Been playing with it a bit but I
> don't exactly know what I'm doing. Once I actually have a piece of
> hardware to play with I'm sure it'll start making more sense. The
> 6.270 board I have is version 2.21 from around 1993 I believe.

ICC11 is an excellent compiler based on LCC. The code it generates
is not highly optimized. It does have a fairly complete standard
library (for a non-hosted environment), but do not expect the
library to be anything like optimized.

[snip]

Mike
--
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that! Start a New Thread

Jim Peterson wrote:
> I havent tried any of them, but a google search for +GNU +HC11 +"C "
> produces some very usable looking leads. I think c++ is asking a lot of

Not in my experience. What I saw were pretty much Staphane Carrez' port
to the 68HC11. It is neither easy to install, nor does it have a
standard library. It does have a Yahoo group similar to this one.

> a 32K memory module. If what you are really asking for is a high level
> language, I have tested this java tool on the handyboard HC11 robotics
> controller. I don't know how hard it will be to transform the handyboard
> based library functions to your board, but this is a reduced Java
> virtual machine that runs in the HC11 among other microprocessors..
> http://www.rtjcom.com/main.php?p=home.

I've got a SMALL C port I did (based on v2.2 or so) which produces
reasonable code. Tighter than the GCC port, though it is also of
course, not the full C language, not even K&R, let alone ANSI.
But it does have a fairly complete (for a non-hosted environment)
standard library, much of it written an assembler, and hand tweaked
over a period of years for optimum speed.

Mike
--
p="p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
This message made from 100% recycled bits.
You have found the bank of Larn.
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.
I speak only for myself, and I am unanimous in that!
Start a New Thread