I'm looking for a set of ARM (LPC17xx series and later the 43xx series)
development tools and can't decide between Code Red Red Suite 4 and Rowley
CrossWorks.
Each seems to have their advantages and disadvantages, but the following seem to
be the major ones to me:
Price: Code Red is $999, CrossWorks is $1500
Trace: The Code Red web site says that Red Suite supports trace on Cortex-M3 and
Cortex-M4 MCUs with the Red Probe+. The CrossWorks site doesn't mention
trace.
Probe: Red Probe+ is $150, Cross Connect is $300.
The screen shots of Red Suite indicate that it's Eclipse-based. I
can't tell what CrossWorks uses. Libraries are not an issue for me as I
tend to write my own anyway. The only vendor library I probably care about is
the floating point library.
Red Suite has a tool to develop state machines for the LPC43xx SCT. I don't
know how useful this will be, and I can't find anything similar in the
Rowley package.
How about support? Anyone have any direct experience with Code Red and/or Rowley
support? Rowley charge $750 for upgrades, while Code Red charges $300/year for
support, which includes upgrades. Which is better probably depends on how often
upgrades come out.
How are these products locked? Do they use license keys or dongles? Is licensing
by "seat" or machine? I have two development machines I'd like to install
on (laptop and desktop), but if I have to buy two separate licenses, then
that's a consideration.
ARM Development Tools
Started by ●March 29, 2012
Reply by ●March 29, 20122012-03-29
On 3/29/2012 1:31 PM, vistacruiser847 wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a set of ARM (LPC17xx series and later the 43xx
> series) development tools and can't decide between Code Red Red Suite
> 4 and Rowley CrossWorks.
>
> Each seems to have their advantages and disadvantages, but the
> following seem to be the major ones to me:
>
> Price: Code Red is $999, CrossWorks is $1500
>
> Trace: The Code Red web site says that Red Suite supports trace on
> Cortex-M3 and Cortex-M4 MCUs with the Red Probe+. The CrossWorks site
> doesn't mention trace.
>
> Probe: Red Probe+ is $150, Cross Connect is $300.
>
> The screen shots of Red Suite indicate that it's Eclipse-based. I
> can't tell what CrossWorks uses. Libraries are not an issue for me as
> I tend to write my own anyway. The only vendor library I probably care
> about is the floating point library.
>
> Red Suite has a tool to develop state machines for the LPC43xx SCT. I
> don't know how useful this will be, and I can't find anything similar
> in the Rowley package.
>
> How about support? Anyone have any direct experience with Code Red
> and/or Rowley support? Rowley charge $750 for upgrades, while Code Red
> charges $300/year for support, which includes upgrades. Which is
> better probably depends on how often upgrades come out.
>
> How are these products locked? Do they use license keys or dongles? Is
> licensing by "seat" or machine? I have two development machines I'd
> like to install on (laptop and desktop), but if I have to buy two
> separate licenses, then that's a consideration.
Code Red is licensed by machine and uses an activation file.
Howard
>
> I'm looking for a set of ARM (LPC17xx series and later the 43xx
> series) development tools and can't decide between Code Red Red Suite
> 4 and Rowley CrossWorks.
>
> Each seems to have their advantages and disadvantages, but the
> following seem to be the major ones to me:
>
> Price: Code Red is $999, CrossWorks is $1500
>
> Trace: The Code Red web site says that Red Suite supports trace on
> Cortex-M3 and Cortex-M4 MCUs with the Red Probe+. The CrossWorks site
> doesn't mention trace.
>
> Probe: Red Probe+ is $150, Cross Connect is $300.
>
> The screen shots of Red Suite indicate that it's Eclipse-based. I
> can't tell what CrossWorks uses. Libraries are not an issue for me as
> I tend to write my own anyway. The only vendor library I probably care
> about is the floating point library.
>
> Red Suite has a tool to develop state machines for the LPC43xx SCT. I
> don't know how useful this will be, and I can't find anything similar
> in the Rowley package.
>
> How about support? Anyone have any direct experience with Code Red
> and/or Rowley support? Rowley charge $750 for upgrades, while Code Red
> charges $300/year for support, which includes upgrades. Which is
> better probably depends on how often upgrades come out.
>
> How are these products locked? Do they use license keys or dongles? Is
> licensing by "seat" or machine? I have two development machines I'd
> like to install on (laptop and desktop), but if I have to buy two
> separate licenses, then that's a consideration.
Code Red is licensed by machine and uses an activation file.
Howard
Reply by ●March 29, 20122012-03-29
On 29 Mar 2012, at 20:31, vistacruiser847 wrote:
> I'm looking for a set of ARM (LPC17xx series and later the 43xx series) development tools and can't decide between Code Red Red Suite 4 and Rowley CrossWorks.
>
> Each seems to have their advantages and disadvantages, but the following seem to be the major ones to me:
>
> Price: Code Red is $999, CrossWorks is $1500
Depends whether you have aspirations to debug above Cortex-M devices or support legacy devices. CrossWorks 2.2 supports Cortex-A and Cortex-R devices. Of course, we support all those ARM7 and ARM9 devices that continue to ship. We have a broad offering where new support packages are introduced without requiring a new release of CrossWorks.
>
> Trace: The Code Red web site says that Red Suite supports trace on Cortex-M3 and Cortex-M4 MCUs with the Red Probe+. The CrossWorks site doesn't mention trace.
We don't support trace at present. We won't release something that we haven't perfected.
>
> Probe: Red Probe+ is $150, Cross Connect is $300.
>
or $200 when purchased with CrossWorks. Or use a huge range of other cheap/expensive JTAG adapters that we support.
> The screen shots of Red Suite indicate that it's Eclipse-based. I can't tell what CrossWorks uses.
The CrossWorks IDE, CrossStudio, is completely written in-house. We don't hitch a ride on Eclipse or anything else that exists for the IDE. The IDE reflects what we use each day, what we feel is appropriate for embedded development, and not a huge melting pot of disparate ideas, from web development to embedded development. Use sharp tools, not blunt instruments.
> Libraries are not an issue for me as I tend to write my own anyway. The only vendor library I probably care about is the floating point library.
I wrote the floating point library and maths library for ARM, Cortex, MSP430, AVR, and MAXQ that CrossWorks uses. What do you need to know?
>
> Red Suite has a tool to develop state machines for the LPC43xx SCT. I don't know how useful this will be, and I can't find anything similar in the Rowley package.
We don't do software through pictures. If that's your bag, there's plenty of candy floss around for that. As we have no desire to do this, even do it badly, we don't offer it, and it will stay that way.
>
> How about support? Anyone have any direct experience with Code Red and/or Rowley support? Rowley charge $750 for upgrades, while Code Red charges $300/year for support, which includes upgrades. Which is better probably depends on how often upgrades come out.
That's covered here:
https://rowley.zendesk.com/entries/222823-maintenance-costs
We have been shipping CrossWorks for ten years now--in that time there has been one $750 for a major version upgrade.
We have a bunch of customers here; they can say what support is like.
>
> How are these products locked? Do they use license keys or dongles? Is licensing by "seat" or machine? I have two development machines I'd like to install on (laptop and desktop), but if I have to buy two separate licenses, then that's a consideration.
Covered here:
https://rowley.zendesk.com/entries/46458-how-do-the-various-crossworks-licenses-differ
CrossWorks is licensed per developer. You can activate as many machines as you like--and as many operating systems. You purchase once license, you use it everywhere you need. OS X? Linux? Windows? All three? Sure.
-- Paul.
> I'm looking for a set of ARM (LPC17xx series and later the 43xx series) development tools and can't decide between Code Red Red Suite 4 and Rowley CrossWorks.
>
> Each seems to have their advantages and disadvantages, but the following seem to be the major ones to me:
>
> Price: Code Red is $999, CrossWorks is $1500
Depends whether you have aspirations to debug above Cortex-M devices or support legacy devices. CrossWorks 2.2 supports Cortex-A and Cortex-R devices. Of course, we support all those ARM7 and ARM9 devices that continue to ship. We have a broad offering where new support packages are introduced without requiring a new release of CrossWorks.
>
> Trace: The Code Red web site says that Red Suite supports trace on Cortex-M3 and Cortex-M4 MCUs with the Red Probe+. The CrossWorks site doesn't mention trace.
We don't support trace at present. We won't release something that we haven't perfected.
>
> Probe: Red Probe+ is $150, Cross Connect is $300.
>
or $200 when purchased with CrossWorks. Or use a huge range of other cheap/expensive JTAG adapters that we support.
> The screen shots of Red Suite indicate that it's Eclipse-based. I can't tell what CrossWorks uses.
The CrossWorks IDE, CrossStudio, is completely written in-house. We don't hitch a ride on Eclipse or anything else that exists for the IDE. The IDE reflects what we use each day, what we feel is appropriate for embedded development, and not a huge melting pot of disparate ideas, from web development to embedded development. Use sharp tools, not blunt instruments.
> Libraries are not an issue for me as I tend to write my own anyway. The only vendor library I probably care about is the floating point library.
I wrote the floating point library and maths library for ARM, Cortex, MSP430, AVR, and MAXQ that CrossWorks uses. What do you need to know?
>
> Red Suite has a tool to develop state machines for the LPC43xx SCT. I don't know how useful this will be, and I can't find anything similar in the Rowley package.
We don't do software through pictures. If that's your bag, there's plenty of candy floss around for that. As we have no desire to do this, even do it badly, we don't offer it, and it will stay that way.
>
> How about support? Anyone have any direct experience with Code Red and/or Rowley support? Rowley charge $750 for upgrades, while Code Red charges $300/year for support, which includes upgrades. Which is better probably depends on how often upgrades come out.
That's covered here:
https://rowley.zendesk.com/entries/222823-maintenance-costs
We have been shipping CrossWorks for ten years now--in that time there has been one $750 for a major version upgrade.
We have a bunch of customers here; they can say what support is like.
>
> How are these products locked? Do they use license keys or dongles? Is licensing by "seat" or machine? I have two development machines I'd like to install on (laptop and desktop), but if I have to buy two separate licenses, then that's a consideration.
Covered here:
https://rowley.zendesk.com/entries/46458-how-do-the-various-crossworks-licenses-differ
CrossWorks is licensed per developer. You can activate as many machines as you like--and as many operating systems. You purchase once license, you use it everywhere you need. OS X? Linux? Windows? All three? Sure.
-- Paul.
Reply by ●March 29, 20122012-03-29
--- In l..., "vistacruiser847" wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a set of ARM (LPC17xx series and later the 43xx series) development tools and can't decide between Code Red Red Suite 4 and Rowley CrossWorks.
I've used both, so let me give you my opinions as a user.
> Each seems to have their advantages and disadvantages, but the following seem to be the major ones to me:
>
> Price: Code Red is $999, CrossWorks is $1500
If you're developing commercially, then $500 is hardly worth worrying about unless you're a one man shop. I'd look more at features than price. If, on the other hand, you're a hobbyist like me, look at Rowley's "Personal" license -- this is the full package for $150. As far as I know, Code Red offers nothing comparable.
> Trace: The Code Red web site says that Red Suite supports trace on Cortex-M3 and Cortex-M4 MCUs with the Red Probe+. The CrossWorks site doesn't mention trace.
I use Code Red in the guise of LPCXpression, the free version of the tool that only works with the LPCXpresso boards. This version doesn't support trace, so I can't comment on their implementation of trace. I've used trace on other products, and can say I don't need it very often, but when I do, it can be a lifesaver.
> Probe: Red Probe+ is $150, Cross Connect is $300.
I have no experience with Red Probe+, as it's not needed with LPCXpresso. I use a Segger J-LINK EDU, which is the non-commercial version of the J-LINK for hobbyists and students. I have a rather weak development system based on an Intel Atom processor, and the CrossWorks/J-LINK combination screams! Downloading code is very fast. Single stepping C and assembly code happens so fast there's no noticeable lag or delay. I cad hold down the single step button and the IDE steps code faster than I can keep up.
Code Red on the LPCXpresso is noticeably slower, probably due to it being written in Java. Compared to CrossWorks, debugging in LPCXpresso is like wading through knee-deep water.
> The screen shots of Red Suite indicate that it's Eclipse-based. I can't tell what CrossWorks uses. Libraries are not an issue for me as I tend to write my own anyway. The only vendor library I probably care about is the floating point library.
I don't know what platform CrossWorks uses, just that it's fast. The CrossWorks libraries are lean and mean, and I have never encountered a bug in them. Code Red supports their own libary (forget what it's called) and Newlib. Newlib is a pig -- it pulls in so much code it's ridiculous.
> Red Suite has a tool to develop state machines for the LPC43xx SCT. I don't know how useful this will be, and I can't find anything similar in the Rowley package.
The LPCXpresso version doesn't have this, so no experience here.
> How about support? Anyone have any direct experience with Code Red and/or Rowley support? Rowley charge $750 for upgrades, while Code Red charges $300/year for support, which includes upgrades. Which is better probably depends on how often upgrades come out.
Rowley support is better than 99.99% of all other software tools companies I've ever dealt with. One of their developers (or owners, I'm not sure), participates in this forum and responds directly to questions.
> How are these products locked? Do they use license keys or dongles? Is licensing by "seat" or machine? I have two development machines I'd like to install on (laptop and desktop), but if I have to buy two separate licenses, then that's a consideration.
License key. When you pay, you get a product key. Run the IDE, give it your key and it generates a key that you email to Rowley and get an activation code in return. I use it on both my desktop and laptop and never had an issue getting a new key when I bought a new machine or had to reinstall Windows.
I'm sure the Code Red fanboys will chime in with their thoughts, but you can call me a Rowley fanboy...
>
> I'm looking for a set of ARM (LPC17xx series and later the 43xx series) development tools and can't decide between Code Red Red Suite 4 and Rowley CrossWorks.
I've used both, so let me give you my opinions as a user.
> Each seems to have their advantages and disadvantages, but the following seem to be the major ones to me:
>
> Price: Code Red is $999, CrossWorks is $1500
If you're developing commercially, then $500 is hardly worth worrying about unless you're a one man shop. I'd look more at features than price. If, on the other hand, you're a hobbyist like me, look at Rowley's "Personal" license -- this is the full package for $150. As far as I know, Code Red offers nothing comparable.
> Trace: The Code Red web site says that Red Suite supports trace on Cortex-M3 and Cortex-M4 MCUs with the Red Probe+. The CrossWorks site doesn't mention trace.
I use Code Red in the guise of LPCXpression, the free version of the tool that only works with the LPCXpresso boards. This version doesn't support trace, so I can't comment on their implementation of trace. I've used trace on other products, and can say I don't need it very often, but when I do, it can be a lifesaver.
> Probe: Red Probe+ is $150, Cross Connect is $300.
I have no experience with Red Probe+, as it's not needed with LPCXpresso. I use a Segger J-LINK EDU, which is the non-commercial version of the J-LINK for hobbyists and students. I have a rather weak development system based on an Intel Atom processor, and the CrossWorks/J-LINK combination screams! Downloading code is very fast. Single stepping C and assembly code happens so fast there's no noticeable lag or delay. I cad hold down the single step button and the IDE steps code faster than I can keep up.
Code Red on the LPCXpresso is noticeably slower, probably due to it being written in Java. Compared to CrossWorks, debugging in LPCXpresso is like wading through knee-deep water.
> The screen shots of Red Suite indicate that it's Eclipse-based. I can't tell what CrossWorks uses. Libraries are not an issue for me as I tend to write my own anyway. The only vendor library I probably care about is the floating point library.
I don't know what platform CrossWorks uses, just that it's fast. The CrossWorks libraries are lean and mean, and I have never encountered a bug in them. Code Red supports their own libary (forget what it's called) and Newlib. Newlib is a pig -- it pulls in so much code it's ridiculous.
> Red Suite has a tool to develop state machines for the LPC43xx SCT. I don't know how useful this will be, and I can't find anything similar in the Rowley package.
The LPCXpresso version doesn't have this, so no experience here.
> How about support? Anyone have any direct experience with Code Red and/or Rowley support? Rowley charge $750 for upgrades, while Code Red charges $300/year for support, which includes upgrades. Which is better probably depends on how often upgrades come out.
Rowley support is better than 99.99% of all other software tools companies I've ever dealt with. One of their developers (or owners, I'm not sure), participates in this forum and responds directly to questions.
> How are these products locked? Do they use license keys or dongles? Is licensing by "seat" or machine? I have two development machines I'd like to install on (laptop and desktop), but if I have to buy two separate licenses, then that's a consideration.
License key. When you pay, you get a product key. Run the IDE, give it your key and it generates a key that you email to Rowley and get an activation code in return. I use it on both my desktop and laptop and never had an issue getting a new key when I bought a new machine or had to reinstall Windows.
I'm sure the Code Red fanboys will chime in with their thoughts, but you can call me a Rowley fanboy...
Reply by ●March 30, 20122012-03-30
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Reply by ●March 30, 20122012-03-30
--- In l..., Paul Curtis wrote:
>
>> The screen shots of Red Suite indicate that it's Eclipse-based. I can't
>> tell what CrossWorks uses.
>
> The CrossWorks IDE, CrossStudio, is completely written in-house. We don't
> hitch a ride on Eclipse or anything else that exists for the IDE. The IDE
> reflects what we use each day, what we feel is appropriate for embedded
> development, and not a huge melting pot of disparate ideas, from web
> development to embedded development. Use sharp tools, not blunt instruments.
I see this as Rowley's biggest disadvantage. Their IDE just doesn't have all the nice features that Eclipse has and never will. If there is something you want to do in Eclipse that's not supported natively, it's very likely that there is a plugin that will do it.
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 3:32 AM, wrote:
> Code Red on the LPCXpresso is noticeably slower, probably due to it being
> written in Java.
Agreed that the LPCXpresso debugging is slow, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's because of Java. Java can be every bit as fast as C++. It may be the case that the Red Probe is much faster. I can't say either way though, of course, so it's a risk.
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 3:32 AM, wrote:
> CrossWorks libraries are lean and mean, and I have never encountered a bug
> in them. Code Red supports their own libary (forget what it's called) and
> Newlib. Newlib is a pig -- it pulls in so much code it's ridiculous.
To be fair, there was very little difference between Code Red's library and Rowley's library in terms of performance and size when I tried it. You don't have to use newlib with Code Red, they just provide it.
I am neither a Code Red nor a Rowley fan boy since I use neither now, but I evaluated both.
>
>> The screen shots of Red Suite indicate that it's Eclipse-based. I can't
>> tell what CrossWorks uses.
>
> The CrossWorks IDE, CrossStudio, is completely written in-house. We don't
> hitch a ride on Eclipse or anything else that exists for the IDE. The IDE
> reflects what we use each day, what we feel is appropriate for embedded
> development, and not a huge melting pot of disparate ideas, from web
> development to embedded development. Use sharp tools, not blunt instruments.
I see this as Rowley's biggest disadvantage. Their IDE just doesn't have all the nice features that Eclipse has and never will. If there is something you want to do in Eclipse that's not supported natively, it's very likely that there is a plugin that will do it.
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 3:32 AM, wrote:
> Code Red on the LPCXpresso is noticeably slower, probably due to it being
> written in Java.
Agreed that the LPCXpresso debugging is slow, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's because of Java. Java can be every bit as fast as C++. It may be the case that the Red Probe is much faster. I can't say either way though, of course, so it's a risk.
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 3:32 AM, wrote:
> CrossWorks libraries are lean and mean, and I have never encountered a bug
> in them. Code Red supports their own libary (forget what it's called) and
> Newlib. Newlib is a pig -- it pulls in so much code it's ridiculous.
To be fair, there was very little difference between Code Red's library and Rowley's library in terms of performance and size when I tried it. You don't have to use newlib with Code Red, they just provide it.
I am neither a Code Red nor a Rowley fan boy since I use neither now, but I evaluated both.
Reply by ●March 30, 20122012-03-30
>> The CrossWorks IDE, CrossStudio, is completely
written in-house.
>> I see this as Rowley's biggest disadvantage.
>> Their IDE just doesn't have all the nice features that Eclipse has and never will.
>> If there is something you want to do in Eclipse that's not supported natively, it's very likely that there is a plugin that will do it.
OMG. Nice features in Eclipse? Where!!! Eclipse is about the worst code editor I have ever used.
Can you put your cursor on a word and just hit a key or two and search for all occurances of that word?
Can you pull up a reference source for the word at your cursor?
Perhaps I've not figured out how to use Eclipse right. So how do you do that?
It's funny that there are so many requests for an UltraEdit plugin for Eclipse.
Why? Because Eclipse lacks so many basic programming editor features.
I've used UltraEdit for years, and CrossWorks has many of the same features. I love that.
That fact that CrossWorks is NOT based on Eclipse I see as as HUGE plus.
CrossWorks has a zillion features that give a programmer truck loads of information.
It is chuck full of data, information, and capabilities you will never find in any Eclipse clone.
CrossWorks shows you the ROM and RAM used by every single module instantly. Zillons of other details.
I've used a lot of IDE's and I have to say that CrossWorks is one of the best.
It was obviously designed by people who know exactly what embedded programmers need.
Chris.
>> I see this as Rowley's biggest disadvantage.
>> Their IDE just doesn't have all the nice features that Eclipse has and never will.
>> If there is something you want to do in Eclipse that's not supported natively, it's very likely that there is a plugin that will do it.
OMG. Nice features in Eclipse? Where!!! Eclipse is about the worst code editor I have ever used.
Can you put your cursor on a word and just hit a key or two and search for all occurances of that word?
Can you pull up a reference source for the word at your cursor?
Perhaps I've not figured out how to use Eclipse right. So how do you do that?
It's funny that there are so many requests for an UltraEdit plugin for Eclipse.
Why? Because Eclipse lacks so many basic programming editor features.
I've used UltraEdit for years, and CrossWorks has many of the same features. I love that.
That fact that CrossWorks is NOT based on Eclipse I see as as HUGE plus.
CrossWorks has a zillion features that give a programmer truck loads of information.
It is chuck full of data, information, and capabilities you will never find in any Eclipse clone.
CrossWorks shows you the ROM and RAM used by every single module instantly. Zillons of other details.
I've used a lot of IDE's and I have to say that CrossWorks is one of the best.
It was obviously designed by people who know exactly what embedded programmers need.
Chris.
Reply by ●March 30, 20122012-03-30
Well said Chris.
Eclipse based IDE has cost several CPU vendors design wins for ASIC with me,
I will never risk a commercial development on an Eclipse based toolchain.
Yes, it's cheap, but with the cost of developing an SOC into the tens of
millions of dollars having a good professionally maintained IDE that isn't
written in Java is a no brainer.
And it's not just the code editor, but the debugger also.
For a hobbyist it's a great environment, but IMHO it's not suitable for a
serious commercial product development.
Regards
Phil.
From: l... [mailto:l...] On Behalf Of
Chris
Sent: 30 March 2012 19:47
To: l...
Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Re: ARM Development Tools
>> The CrossWorks IDE, CrossStudio, is completely written in-house.
>> I see this as Rowley's biggest disadvantage.
>> Their IDE just doesn't have all the nice features that Eclipse has and
never will.
>> If there is something you want to do in Eclipse that's not supported
natively, it's very likely that there is a plugin that will do it.
OMG. Nice features in Eclipse? Where!!! Eclipse is about the worst code
editor I have ever used.
Can you put your cursor on a word and just hit a key or two and search for
all occurances of that word?
Can you pull up a reference source for the word at your cursor?
Perhaps I've not figured out how to use Eclipse right. So how do you do
that?
It's funny that there are so many requests for an UltraEdit plugin for
Eclipse.
Why? Because Eclipse lacks so many basic programming editor features.
I've used UltraEdit for years, and CrossWorks has many of the same features.
I love that.
That fact that CrossWorks is NOT based on Eclipse I see as as HUGE plus.
CrossWorks has a zillion features that give a programmer truck loads of
information.
It is chuck full of data, information, and capabilities you will never find
in any Eclipse clone.
CrossWorks shows you the ROM and RAM used by every single module instantly.
Zillons of other details.
I've used a lot of IDE's and I have to say that CrossWorks is one of the
best.
It was obviously designed by people who know exactly what embedded
programmers need.
Chris.
Eclipse based IDE has cost several CPU vendors design wins for ASIC with me,
I will never risk a commercial development on an Eclipse based toolchain.
Yes, it's cheap, but with the cost of developing an SOC into the tens of
millions of dollars having a good professionally maintained IDE that isn't
written in Java is a no brainer.
And it's not just the code editor, but the debugger also.
For a hobbyist it's a great environment, but IMHO it's not suitable for a
serious commercial product development.
Regards
Phil.
From: l... [mailto:l...] On Behalf Of
Chris
Sent: 30 March 2012 19:47
To: l...
Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Re: ARM Development Tools
>> The CrossWorks IDE, CrossStudio, is completely written in-house.
>> I see this as Rowley's biggest disadvantage.
>> Their IDE just doesn't have all the nice features that Eclipse has and
never will.
>> If there is something you want to do in Eclipse that's not supported
natively, it's very likely that there is a plugin that will do it.
OMG. Nice features in Eclipse? Where!!! Eclipse is about the worst code
editor I have ever used.
Can you put your cursor on a word and just hit a key or two and search for
all occurances of that word?
Can you pull up a reference source for the word at your cursor?
Perhaps I've not figured out how to use Eclipse right. So how do you do
that?
It's funny that there are so many requests for an UltraEdit plugin for
Eclipse.
Why? Because Eclipse lacks so many basic programming editor features.
I've used UltraEdit for years, and CrossWorks has many of the same features.
I love that.
That fact that CrossWorks is NOT based on Eclipse I see as as HUGE plus.
CrossWorks has a zillion features that give a programmer truck loads of
information.
It is chuck full of data, information, and capabilities you will never find
in any Eclipse clone.
CrossWorks shows you the ROM and RAM used by every single module instantly.
Zillons of other details.
I've used a lot of IDE's and I have to say that CrossWorks is one of the
best.
It was obviously designed by people who know exactly what embedded
programmers need.
Chris.
Reply by ●March 30, 20122012-03-30
I will chime in with an endorsement of Brawley/CrossWorks. We've
moved to them over Keil, as they are just easier to do business
with and appear to more robust in those tough situations where
you really need a solid debugger. I concur also with the Eclipse
observations, it is a case of getting what you pay for.
== Rick Davis.
moved to them over Keil, as they are just easier to do business
with and appear to more robust in those tough situations where
you really need a solid debugger. I concur also with the Eclipse
observations, it is a case of getting what you pay for.
== Rick Davis.
Reply by ●March 30, 20122012-03-30
For me the Eclipse is for a hobbyist and not for educational too .Eclipse
has more plugging and need a power pc CPU to run with good performance.
At this moment I use IAR for ARM and AVR and prefer an IDE in-house again to
open source...
I evaluate the crossworks for the next plain.
Thanks for yours opinion... Diego
_____
De: l... [mailto:l...] En nombre de
Phil Young
Enviado el: viernes, 30 de marzo de 2012 15:56
Para: l...
Asunto: RE: [lpc2000] Re: ARM Development Tools
Well said Chris.
Eclipse based IDE has cost several CPU vendors design wins for ASIC with me,
I will never risk a commercial development on an Eclipse based toolchain.
Yes, it's cheap, but with the cost of developing an SOC into the tens of
millions of dollars having a good professionally maintained IDE that isn't
written in Java is a no brainer.
And it's not just the code editor, but the debugger also.
For a hobbyist it's a great environment, but IMHO it's not suitable for a
serious commercial product development.
Regards
Phil.
From: l...
[mailto:l... ] On
Behalf Of
Chris
Sent: 30 March 2012 19:47
To: l...
Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Re: ARM Development Tools
>> The CrossWorks IDE, CrossStudio, is completely written in-house.
>> I see this as Rowley's biggest disadvantage.
>> Their IDE just doesn't have all the nice features that Eclipse has and
never will.
>> If there is something you want to do in Eclipse that's not supported
natively, it's very likely that there is a plugin that will do it.
OMG. Nice features in Eclipse? Where!!! Eclipse is about the worst code
editor I have ever used.
Can you put your cursor on a word and just hit a key or two and search for
all occurances of that word?
Can you pull up a reference source for the word at your cursor?
Perhaps I've not figured out how to use Eclipse right. So how do you do
that?
It's funny that there are so many requests for an UltraEdit plugin for
Eclipse.
Why? Because Eclipse lacks so many basic programming editor features.
I've used UltraEdit for years, and CrossWorks has many of the same features.
I love that.
That fact that CrossWorks is NOT based on Eclipse I see as as HUGE plus.
CrossWorks has a zillion features that give a programmer truck loads of
information.
It is chuck full of data, information, and capabilities you will never find
in any Eclipse clone.
CrossWorks shows you the ROM and RAM used by every single module instantly.
Zillons of other details.
I've used a lot of IDE's and I have to say that CrossWorks is one of the
best.
It was obviously designed by people who know exactly what embedded
programmers need.
Chris.
has more plugging and need a power pc CPU to run with good performance.
At this moment I use IAR for ARM and AVR and prefer an IDE in-house again to
open source...
I evaluate the crossworks for the next plain.
Thanks for yours opinion... Diego
_____
De: l... [mailto:l...] En nombre de
Phil Young
Enviado el: viernes, 30 de marzo de 2012 15:56
Para: l...
Asunto: RE: [lpc2000] Re: ARM Development Tools
Well said Chris.
Eclipse based IDE has cost several CPU vendors design wins for ASIC with me,
I will never risk a commercial development on an Eclipse based toolchain.
Yes, it's cheap, but with the cost of developing an SOC into the tens of
millions of dollars having a good professionally maintained IDE that isn't
written in Java is a no brainer.
And it's not just the code editor, but the debugger also.
For a hobbyist it's a great environment, but IMHO it's not suitable for a
serious commercial product development.
Regards
Phil.
From: l...
[mailto:l... ] On
Behalf Of
Chris
Sent: 30 March 2012 19:47
To: l...
Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Re: ARM Development Tools
>> The CrossWorks IDE, CrossStudio, is completely written in-house.
>> I see this as Rowley's biggest disadvantage.
>> Their IDE just doesn't have all the nice features that Eclipse has and
never will.
>> If there is something you want to do in Eclipse that's not supported
natively, it's very likely that there is a plugin that will do it.
OMG. Nice features in Eclipse? Where!!! Eclipse is about the worst code
editor I have ever used.
Can you put your cursor on a word and just hit a key or two and search for
all occurances of that word?
Can you pull up a reference source for the word at your cursor?
Perhaps I've not figured out how to use Eclipse right. So how do you do
that?
It's funny that there are so many requests for an UltraEdit plugin for
Eclipse.
Why? Because Eclipse lacks so many basic programming editor features.
I've used UltraEdit for years, and CrossWorks has many of the same features.
I love that.
That fact that CrossWorks is NOT based on Eclipse I see as as HUGE plus.
CrossWorks has a zillion features that give a programmer truck loads of
information.
It is chuck full of data, information, and capabilities you will never find
in any Eclipse clone.
CrossWorks shows you the ROM and RAM used by every single module instantly.
Zillons of other details.
I've used a lot of IDE's and I have to say that CrossWorks is one of the
best.
It was obviously designed by people who know exactly what embedded
programmers need.
Chris.
