--- In l..., Olivier Gautherot wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> Check this:
>
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Olimex-Ltd/ARM-USB-OCD-H/?qs=hO3QYTFrOd1fELAmpV2t0XVkbwS%252b17zW3T5%2fFySND9A%3d
> http://microcontrollershop.com/product_info.php?products_id25
>
http://www.amazon.com/JTAG-USB-OCD-Tiny-Programmer/dp/B004G56JVE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid36615542&sr=8-2
>
> Hope it helps
> Cheers
> Olivier
>
Yes ! It certainly does ! Amazon... Who would've thunk that they'd
have this stuff a few years ago ?
Now, I wonder why they say "Works with IAR EW-ARM 5.50 or newer " ??
At least the one with the RS232 on the unit which I REALLY like !
I do have IAR 5.50 but went back to 5.40 because IAR changed things around
(variable definition requirements are more strict) and we are shipping products
and we didn't have time to verify our changes.
I will buy one or both of these since they are inexpensive enough.
Moving towards an open source solution... Will let you know if it
works for us or not. We'll certainly learn something I'm sure !!
Thanks again ! This group is one big reason I went for the LPCxxxx
parts in the first place !
boB
> boB G wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Now, if only I could find someplace with the Olimex ARM-JTAG-EW in
> > stock for less than $172 USD that would be great !!
> >
> > http://www.olimex.com/dev/arm-jtag-ew.html has them for 100 Euros.
> > That's probably around $172 USD. I've heard of $100 USD and $79
USD
> > from places that do NOT have them in stock. It's easy I guess to sell
> > for cheaper if you don't actually have to deliver it.
> >
> > boB
> >
> > --- In l... ,
> > "boB G" wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In l... ,
> > Olivier Gautherot wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Bob,
> > > >
> > > > you can try to look at the Olimex JTAG interface - there is some
> > > > literature on how to install OpenOCD with the IAR IDE
> > > > (http://www.olimex.com/dev/soft/arm/JTAG/Manual_IAR.pdf)
> > > >
> > > > OpenOCD is a nice piece of code but surely not the most plug-and-play
> > > > that you can find (my initial experience with LPCXpresso was a lot
> > > > better). I've already spent a few days getting the whole
> > environment up
> > > > and running and will probably need a few more.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Olivier
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about !
> > >
> > > Maybe someone else here has used it ??
> > > I understand it's only $99 which is WAY better
> > > than $300 for the J-Link.... IF it works OK.
> > >
> > > I'll just have to buy one (or two ?) and find out !
> > >
> > > Thank you Olivier !!
> > >
> > > boB
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > bobtransformer wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In l...
> > ,
> > > > > "Bob T" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In l...
> > ,
> > > > > "boB G" wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am using IAR EWARM 5.40 with the IAR J-Link Segger and am
> > wondering
> > > > > > > what other JTAG debuggers are people using here that will
> > work for
> > > > > JTAG
> > > > > > > debugging from within the IAR IDE.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I see a list of debugging possibilities but I don't know
> > much about
> > > > > > > any of the alternatives that may work OK here.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > boB
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > You can use the emulators of Lauterbach, Hitex, Signum.... ;-)
> > > > > > Why are you trying to find an alternative for something in this
> > > > > price range? You've been around in this forum for a while, my
> > > > > assumption is you are not a zero budget student. Do you really
> > want to
> > > > > invest hours in finding out and then days in debugging and
> > regretting?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks Bob and also thank you for spelling your name backwards
> > so we
> > > > > don't get confused !!
> > > > >
> > > > > The reason I am looking elsewhere is that I don't like
Segger's
> > lack
> > > > > of support on their forum and am just trying to exercise my
> > freedom of
> > > > > choice here. They tend to ignore what I have mentioned without
> > > > > acknowledgement.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been having problems lately with (evidently) my USB drivers
> > > > > getting corrupt and having to re-install the J-Link drivers and
> > then
> > > > > re-boot the computer. Every few days, or once a week it seems at
> > > > > least, I have been having to re-install and re-boot, in that
> > order. I
> > > > > have also found that I must NOT have the IAR IDE open while
> > > > > re-installing otherwise I continue to receive the errors.
> > > > >
> > > > > The other problem is that the message I get doesn't make sense
and
> > > > > when the warning, (which is really an error), comes up, telling me
> > > > > that the target is running, takes about 10 seconds to come up again
> > > > > and I have to Control-Alt-Delete and stop the DRIVER and IAR IDE
> > > > > tasks, otherwise I have to click through about 10 of these
> > "warnings"
> > > > > which takes about a minute and 1/2 before I have control again.
> > > > > I still have to re-install and re-boot so I just get it over
> > with by
> > > > > ending the task. I sure wish IAR had a Linux or Mac OS X version of
> > > > > their compiler !
> > > > >
> > > > > BTW, the general error I am talking about is this,
> > > > >
> > > > > Warning: Write failed (target is running) at Memory address
> > 0xE01FC08c
> > > > >
> > > > > with a different address appearing every time the message comes up.
> > > > >
> > > > > And if I unplug the USB cable while receiving these errors, it
> > STILL
> > > > > continues to give me the error and totally disregards the fact that
> > > > > there ~IS~ no target to even run as the USB cable is unplugged !
> > > > >
> > > > > I feel like Segger has the IAR/ARM world by the balls and I
> > would like
> > > > > to try and help, in some small way, to increase their competition
> > > > > which might just start these companies to care and make a bullet
> > proof
> > > > > product. We need competition ! So does IAR of course, but they
> > do make
> > > > > a compiler at least that compiles fairly efficient code but they
> > > > > certainly have their big company problems too.
> > > > >
> > > > > I see a list of possibilities for JTAG debugging on the IAR
> > list, like
> > > > > Macraigor, ST-Link, RDI (which Segger also runs),Angel, GDB,
> > etc. and
> > > > > I know about zilch about any of them. Isn't GDB a Gnu solution
> > of some
> > > > > sort ??
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for listening !
> > > > >
> > > > > boB
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Segger gets you pretty much the best bang for your money.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is a new JTAG debugger that IAR announced a couple
> > months ago
> > > > > but I do not know the name nor if they can ship already.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another Bob
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Olivier Gautherot
> > > > *Email:* olivier@
> > > > *Cel:* +56 98 730 9361
> > > > *Web:* www.gautherot.net
> > > > *LinkedIn:* http://www.linkedin.com/in/ogautherot
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> --
>
> Olivier Gautherot
> *Email:* olivier@...
> *Cel:* +56 98 730 9361
> *Web:* www.gautherot.net
> *LinkedIn:* http://www.linkedin.com/in/ogautherot
>
>
>
Alternate to Segger J-Link JTAG for IAR EWARM ???
Started by ●May 9, 2012
Reply by ●May 10, 20122012-05-10
Reply by ●May 10, 20122012-05-10
On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Olivier Gautherot
wrote:
> Bob,
>
> note that the download speed of a professional JTAG probe is better that
> OpenOCD: people report a stable use of OpenOCD at up to 500kHz (and
> others as low as 10kHz but I seem to be on the lucky side). I assume
> professional tools support up to several MHz and enhance the debugging
> experience, depending on the type of app that you're debugging. As the
> probe costs only $79 at Mouser, you won't loose much if you give it a try.
Please also take note that OpenOCD has made quite some progress
over the past years and now it is near to 0.6.0 release.
One result I got from recent git version of OpenOCD with
TI/Luminary EK-LM3S1968.
mymacmini:lm3s1968 xiaofanc$ openocd -f board/ek-lm3s1968.cfg
Open On-Chip Debugger 0.6.0-dev-00543-g908ee4d (2012-05-05-20:28)
Licensed under GNU GPL v2
For bug reports, read
http://openocd.sourceforge.net/doc/doxygen/bugs.html
Info : only one transport option; autoselect 'jtag'
500 kHz
Info : clock speed 500 kHz
Info : lm3s1968.cpu: hardware has 6 breakpoints, 4 watchpoints
Info : accepting 'telnet' connection from 4444
target state: halted
target halted due to debug-request, current mode: Thread
xPSR: 0x01000000 pc: 0x000011ae msp: 0x200000f0
flash 'stellaris' found at 0x00000000
500 kHz
auto erase enabled
wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 8.341610s (30.690 KiB/s)
1000 kHz
auto erase enabled
wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 5.227277s (48.974 KiB/s)
2000 kHz
auto erase enabled
wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 4.353256s (58.807 KiB/s)
3000 kHz
auto erase enabled
wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 4.346641s (58.896 KiB/s)
You can see it is much better than last time's result: the flash write
was never above 18KB/sec for LM3S1968 for my test done about
a year ago.
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.debugging.openocd.devel/17877
--
Xiaofan
wrote:
> Bob,
>
> note that the download speed of a professional JTAG probe is better that
> OpenOCD: people report a stable use of OpenOCD at up to 500kHz (and
> others as low as 10kHz but I seem to be on the lucky side). I assume
> professional tools support up to several MHz and enhance the debugging
> experience, depending on the type of app that you're debugging. As the
> probe costs only $79 at Mouser, you won't loose much if you give it a try.
Please also take note that OpenOCD has made quite some progress
over the past years and now it is near to 0.6.0 release.
One result I got from recent git version of OpenOCD with
TI/Luminary EK-LM3S1968.
mymacmini:lm3s1968 xiaofanc$ openocd -f board/ek-lm3s1968.cfg
Open On-Chip Debugger 0.6.0-dev-00543-g908ee4d (2012-05-05-20:28)
Licensed under GNU GPL v2
For bug reports, read
http://openocd.sourceforge.net/doc/doxygen/bugs.html
Info : only one transport option; autoselect 'jtag'
500 kHz
Info : clock speed 500 kHz
Info : lm3s1968.cpu: hardware has 6 breakpoints, 4 watchpoints
Info : accepting 'telnet' connection from 4444
target state: halted
target halted due to debug-request, current mode: Thread
xPSR: 0x01000000 pc: 0x000011ae msp: 0x200000f0
flash 'stellaris' found at 0x00000000
500 kHz
auto erase enabled
wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 8.341610s (30.690 KiB/s)
1000 kHz
auto erase enabled
wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 5.227277s (48.974 KiB/s)
2000 kHz
auto erase enabled
wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 4.353256s (58.807 KiB/s)
3000 kHz
auto erase enabled
wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 4.346641s (58.896 KiB/s)
You can see it is much better than last time's result: the flash write
was never above 18KB/sec for LM3S1968 for my test done about
a year ago.
http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.debugging.openocd.devel/17877
--
Xiaofan
Reply by ●May 10, 20122012-05-10
Hi Xiaofan,
Thanks for the good news - I'm also using the version 0.6.0 (or a beta
of it).
I'm still struggling to get a reliable download on the LPC1754 (I'm
still looking for the correct sequence of commands) so I can't give
precise results yet.
Cheers
Olivier
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Olivier Gautherot
> > wrote:
> > Bob,
> >
> > note that the download speed of a professional JTAG probe is better that
> > OpenOCD: people report a stable use of OpenOCD at up to 500kHz (and
> > others as low as 10kHz but I seem to be on the lucky side). I assume
> > professional tools support up to several MHz and enhance the debugging
> > experience, depending on the type of app that you're debugging. As the
> > probe costs only $79 at Mouser, you won't loose much if you give it
> a try.
>
> Please also take note that OpenOCD has made quite some progress
> over the past years and now it is near to 0.6.0 release.
>
> One result I got from recent git version of OpenOCD with
> TI/Luminary EK-LM3S1968.
>
> mymacmini:lm3s1968 xiaofanc$ openocd -f board/ek-lm3s1968.cfg
> Open On-Chip Debugger 0.6.0-dev-00543-g908ee4d (2012-05-05-20:28)
> Licensed under GNU GPL v2
> For bug reports, read
> http://openocd.sourceforge.net/doc/doxygen/bugs.html
> Info : only one transport option; autoselect 'jtag'
> 500 kHz
> Info : clock speed 500 kHz
> Info : lm3s1968.cpu: hardware has 6 breakpoints, 4 watchpoints
> Info : accepting 'telnet' connection from 4444
> target state: halted
> target halted due to debug-request, current mode: Thread
> xPSR: 0x01000000 pc: 0x000011ae msp: 0x200000f0
> flash 'stellaris' found at 0x00000000
> 500 kHz
> auto erase enabled
> wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 8.341610s (30.690 KiB/s)
> 1000 kHz
> auto erase enabled
> wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 5.227277s (48.974 KiB/s)
> 2000 kHz
> auto erase enabled
> wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 4.353256s (58.807 KiB/s)
> 3000 kHz
> auto erase enabled
> wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 4.346641s (58.896 KiB/s)
>
> You can see it is much better than last time's result: the flash write
> was never above 18KB/sec for LM3S1968 for my test done about
> a year ago.
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.debugging.openocd.devel/17877
>
> --
> Xiaofan
--
Olivier Gautherot
*Email:* o...@gautherot.net
*Cel:* +56 98 730 9361
*Web:* www.gautherot.net
*LinkedIn:* http://www.linkedin.com/in/ogautherot
Thanks for the good news - I'm also using the version 0.6.0 (or a beta
of it).
I'm still struggling to get a reliable download on the LPC1754 (I'm
still looking for the correct sequence of commands) so I can't give
precise results yet.
Cheers
Olivier
Xiaofan Chen wrote:
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Olivier Gautherot
> > wrote:
> > Bob,
> >
> > note that the download speed of a professional JTAG probe is better that
> > OpenOCD: people report a stable use of OpenOCD at up to 500kHz (and
> > others as low as 10kHz but I seem to be on the lucky side). I assume
> > professional tools support up to several MHz and enhance the debugging
> > experience, depending on the type of app that you're debugging. As the
> > probe costs only $79 at Mouser, you won't loose much if you give it
> a try.
>
> Please also take note that OpenOCD has made quite some progress
> over the past years and now it is near to 0.6.0 release.
>
> One result I got from recent git version of OpenOCD with
> TI/Luminary EK-LM3S1968.
>
> mymacmini:lm3s1968 xiaofanc$ openocd -f board/ek-lm3s1968.cfg
> Open On-Chip Debugger 0.6.0-dev-00543-g908ee4d (2012-05-05-20:28)
> Licensed under GNU GPL v2
> For bug reports, read
> http://openocd.sourceforge.net/doc/doxygen/bugs.html
> Info : only one transport option; autoselect 'jtag'
> 500 kHz
> Info : clock speed 500 kHz
> Info : lm3s1968.cpu: hardware has 6 breakpoints, 4 watchpoints
> Info : accepting 'telnet' connection from 4444
> target state: halted
> target halted due to debug-request, current mode: Thread
> xPSR: 0x01000000 pc: 0x000011ae msp: 0x200000f0
> flash 'stellaris' found at 0x00000000
> 500 kHz
> auto erase enabled
> wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 8.341610s (30.690 KiB/s)
> 1000 kHz
> auto erase enabled
> wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 5.227277s (48.974 KiB/s)
> 2000 kHz
> auto erase enabled
> wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 4.353256s (58.807 KiB/s)
> 3000 kHz
> auto erase enabled
> wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 4.346641s (58.896 KiB/s)
>
> You can see it is much better than last time's result: the flash write
> was never above 18KB/sec for LM3S1968 for my test done about
> a year ago.
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.debugging.openocd.devel/17877
>
> --
> Xiaofan
--
Olivier Gautherot
*Email:* o...@gautherot.net
*Cel:* +56 98 730 9361
*Web:* www.gautherot.net
*LinkedIn:* http://www.linkedin.com/in/ogautherot
Reply by ●May 10, 20122012-05-10
Thought I would mention that Segger has banned me from logging onto their web
site and forum for asking about alternate J-Link solutions.
I also received an email from them (Rolf) directly asking why I would want to purchase a cheap solution when I make so much money programming for a living....
I had to tell them about how I like open source solutions and companies with support, like great forums for products like NXP LPC processors and how I just started receiving a small salary after 4 years of not receiving any salary and putting ALL of my money into our company, etc.
They just don't understand I guess.
boB
--- In l..., Olivier Gautherot wrote:
>
> Hi Xiaofan,
>
> Thanks for the good news - I'm also using the version 0.6.0 (or a beta
> of it).
>
> I'm still struggling to get a reliable download on the LPC1754 (I'm
> still looking for the correct sequence of commands) so I can't give
> precise results yet.
>
> Cheers
> Olivier
> Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Olivier Gautherot
> > > wrote:
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > note that the download speed of a professional JTAG probe is better that
> > > OpenOCD: people report a stable use of OpenOCD at up to 500kHz (and
> > > others as low as 10kHz but I seem to be on the lucky side). I assume
> > > professional tools support up to several MHz and enhance the debugging
> > > experience, depending on the type of app that you're debugging. As the
> > > probe costs only $79 at Mouser, you won't loose much if you give it
> > a try.
> >
> > Please also take note that OpenOCD has made quite some progress
> > over the past years and now it is near to 0.6.0 release.
> >
> > One result I got from recent git version of OpenOCD with
> > TI/Luminary EK-LM3S1968.
> >
> > mymacmini:lm3s1968 xiaofanc$ openocd -f board/ek-lm3s1968.cfg
> > Open On-Chip Debugger 0.6.0-dev-00543-g908ee4d (2012-05-05-20:28)
> > Licensed under GNU GPL v2
> > For bug reports, read
> > http://openocd.sourceforge.net/doc/doxygen/bugs.html
> > Info : only one transport option; autoselect 'jtag'
> > 500 kHz
> > Info : clock speed 500 kHz
> > Info : lm3s1968.cpu: hardware has 6 breakpoints, 4 watchpoints
> > Info : accepting 'telnet' connection from 4444
> > target state: halted
> > target halted due to debug-request, current mode: Thread
> > xPSR: 0x01000000 pc: 0x000011ae msp: 0x200000f0
> > flash 'stellaris' found at 0x00000000
> > 500 kHz
> > auto erase enabled
> > wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 8.341610s (30.690 KiB/s)
> > 1000 kHz
> > auto erase enabled
> > wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 5.227277s (48.974 KiB/s)
> > 2000 kHz
> > auto erase enabled
> > wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 4.353256s (58.807 KiB/s)
> > 3000 kHz
> > auto erase enabled
> > wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 4.346641s (58.896 KiB/s)
> >
> > You can see it is much better than last time's result: the flash write
> > was never above 18KB/sec for LM3S1968 for my test done about
> > a year ago.
> > http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.debugging.openocd.devel/17877
> >
> > --
> > Xiaofan
> >
> >
> --
>
> Olivier Gautherot
> *Email:* olivier@...
> *Cel:* +56 98 730 9361
> *Web:* www.gautherot.net
> *LinkedIn:* http://www.linkedin.com/in/ogautherot
>
>
>
I also received an email from them (Rolf) directly asking why I would want to purchase a cheap solution when I make so much money programming for a living....
I had to tell them about how I like open source solutions and companies with support, like great forums for products like NXP LPC processors and how I just started receiving a small salary after 4 years of not receiving any salary and putting ALL of my money into our company, etc.
They just don't understand I guess.
boB
--- In l..., Olivier Gautherot wrote:
>
> Hi Xiaofan,
>
> Thanks for the good news - I'm also using the version 0.6.0 (or a beta
> of it).
>
> I'm still struggling to get a reliable download on the LPC1754 (I'm
> still looking for the correct sequence of commands) so I can't give
> precise results yet.
>
> Cheers
> Olivier
> Xiaofan Chen wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Olivier Gautherot
> > > wrote:
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > note that the download speed of a professional JTAG probe is better that
> > > OpenOCD: people report a stable use of OpenOCD at up to 500kHz (and
> > > others as low as 10kHz but I seem to be on the lucky side). I assume
> > > professional tools support up to several MHz and enhance the debugging
> > > experience, depending on the type of app that you're debugging. As the
> > > probe costs only $79 at Mouser, you won't loose much if you give it
> > a try.
> >
> > Please also take note that OpenOCD has made quite some progress
> > over the past years and now it is near to 0.6.0 release.
> >
> > One result I got from recent git version of OpenOCD with
> > TI/Luminary EK-LM3S1968.
> >
> > mymacmini:lm3s1968 xiaofanc$ openocd -f board/ek-lm3s1968.cfg
> > Open On-Chip Debugger 0.6.0-dev-00543-g908ee4d (2012-05-05-20:28)
> > Licensed under GNU GPL v2
> > For bug reports, read
> > http://openocd.sourceforge.net/doc/doxygen/bugs.html
> > Info : only one transport option; autoselect 'jtag'
> > 500 kHz
> > Info : clock speed 500 kHz
> > Info : lm3s1968.cpu: hardware has 6 breakpoints, 4 watchpoints
> > Info : accepting 'telnet' connection from 4444
> > target state: halted
> > target halted due to debug-request, current mode: Thread
> > xPSR: 0x01000000 pc: 0x000011ae msp: 0x200000f0
> > flash 'stellaris' found at 0x00000000
> > 500 kHz
> > auto erase enabled
> > wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 8.341610s (30.690 KiB/s)
> > 1000 kHz
> > auto erase enabled
> > wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 5.227277s (48.974 KiB/s)
> > 2000 kHz
> > auto erase enabled
> > wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 4.353256s (58.807 KiB/s)
> > 3000 kHz
> > auto erase enabled
> > wrote 262144 bytes from file demo4.bin in 4.346641s (58.896 KiB/s)
> >
> > You can see it is much better than last time's result: the flash write
> > was never above 18KB/sec for LM3S1968 for my test done about
> > a year ago.
> > http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.debugging.openocd.devel/17877
> >
> > --
> > Xiaofan
> >
> >
> --
>
> Olivier Gautherot
> *Email:* olivier@...
> *Cel:* +56 98 730 9361
> *Web:* www.gautherot.net
> *LinkedIn:* http://www.linkedin.com/in/ogautherot
>
>
>
Reply by ●May 10, 20122012-05-10
On 10 May 2012, at 23:04, boB G wrote:
>
> Thought I would mention that Segger has banned me from logging onto their web site and forum for asking about alternate J-Link solutions.
>
Defendable if you had stepped beyond the AUP of using their resource. ;-)
> I also received an email from them (Rolf) directly asking why I would want to purchase a cheap solution when I make so much money programming for a living.
>
This doesn't seem an unreasonable question; at least Rolf is engaging with you now, right from the top.
> I had to tell them about how I like open source solutions and companies with support, like great forums for products like NXP LPC processors and how I just started receiving a small salary after 4 years of not receiving any salary and putting ALL of my money into our company, etc.
>
> They just don't understand I guess.
>
Rolf and his team put a lot of effort into J-Links and their other software and I assume they are equally proud and protective of their creation as anybody else. The correct way to deal with this is for both sides to understand why things are the way they are, and that is really hard in many cases: broken USB chipsets, dicky USB hardware and hubs, recalcitrant target systems.
We've found some fixes are as simple as replacing a USB cable. And, of course, it helps if customers turns the target board on! :-) Power supplies are the number one cause of much frustration. I'll say it again: when we work through an issue with a customer only for them to say "sorry, I had a bad power supply, replaced it, and it's all OK now", it makes us fume.
-- Paul.
>
> Thought I would mention that Segger has banned me from logging onto their web site and forum for asking about alternate J-Link solutions.
>
Defendable if you had stepped beyond the AUP of using their resource. ;-)
> I also received an email from them (Rolf) directly asking why I would want to purchase a cheap solution when I make so much money programming for a living.
>
This doesn't seem an unreasonable question; at least Rolf is engaging with you now, right from the top.
> I had to tell them about how I like open source solutions and companies with support, like great forums for products like NXP LPC processors and how I just started receiving a small salary after 4 years of not receiving any salary and putting ALL of my money into our company, etc.
>
> They just don't understand I guess.
>
Rolf and his team put a lot of effort into J-Links and their other software and I assume they are equally proud and protective of their creation as anybody else. The correct way to deal with this is for both sides to understand why things are the way they are, and that is really hard in many cases: broken USB chipsets, dicky USB hardware and hubs, recalcitrant target systems.
We've found some fixes are as simple as replacing a USB cable. And, of course, it helps if customers turns the target board on! :-) Power supplies are the number one cause of much frustration. I'll say it again: when we work through an issue with a customer only for them to say "sorry, I had a bad power supply, replaced it, and it's all OK now", it makes us fume.
-- Paul.
Reply by ●May 10, 20122012-05-10
--- In l..., Paul Curtis wrote:
>
>
> On 10 May 2012, at 23:04, boB G wrote:
>
> >
> > Thought I would mention that Segger has banned me from logging onto their web site and forum for asking about alternate J-Link solutions.
> >
>
> Defendable if you had stepped beyond the AUP of using their resource. ;-)
>
> > I also received an email from them (Rolf) directly asking why I would want to purchase a cheap solution when I make so much money programming for a living.
> >
>
> This doesn't seem an unreasonable question; at least Rolf is engaging with you now, right from the top.
>
> > I had to tell them about how I like open source solutions and companies with support, like great forums for products like NXP LPC processors and how I just started receiving a small salary after 4 years of not receiving any salary and putting ALL of my money into our company, etc.
> >
> > They just don't understand I guess.
> >
>
> Rolf and his team put a lot of effort into J-Links and their other software and I assume they are equally proud and protective of their creation as anybody else. The correct way to deal with this is for both sides to understand why things are the way they are, and that is really hard in many cases: broken USB chipsets, dicky USB hardware and hubs, recalcitrant target systems.
>
> We've found some fixes are as simple as replacing a USB cable. And, of course, it helps if customers turns the target board on! :-) Power supplies are the number one cause of much frustration. I'll say it again: when we work through an issue with a customer only for them to say "sorry, I had a bad power supply, replaced it, and it's all OK now", it makes us fume.
>
> -- Paul.
>
Oh, I KNOW they've put a lot of work into those !
In this case, nobody could make an attempt to help me with
my problem of obviously corrupted drivers. It wasn't a problem with the hardware in this case... Just drivers gone awry about once per week.
I sent a nice reply to them telling them exactly the problem I had with their "support" forum. Or lack of support in this case.
I also gave them an idea on a product improvement... To add a
USB isolation circuit to their programmer. We use several of their
$800 (USD) black programmers (same thing as a J-Link with different software evidently), and they would break some times until we started
using an isolator from PC to the product being programmed.
And Rolf made the assumption that our company was big and making lots of money and I had to tell him of course that I don't make much if any money (yet) and have given the last 4 years of my own finances into our company. Maybe some day it will pay off.
Oh, I also mentioned that competition is good, which it is.
I'm tired of being grabbed by the B*11s by large companies, IAR included. Xilinx too ! We've had problems with their CPLD JTAG programming cables and they do not warranty their units so we JUST this week took 5 of our programmers and finally fixed them. At least they are somewhat fixable. They're $250 a pop when they break.
Rolf should also have known that non students can NOT purchase their less expensive educational version of the programmer. I gather that Rolf is not an owner of the Segger company.
Thanks,
boB
>
>
> On 10 May 2012, at 23:04, boB G wrote:
>
> >
> > Thought I would mention that Segger has banned me from logging onto their web site and forum for asking about alternate J-Link solutions.
> >
>
> Defendable if you had stepped beyond the AUP of using their resource. ;-)
>
> > I also received an email from them (Rolf) directly asking why I would want to purchase a cheap solution when I make so much money programming for a living.
> >
>
> This doesn't seem an unreasonable question; at least Rolf is engaging with you now, right from the top.
>
> > I had to tell them about how I like open source solutions and companies with support, like great forums for products like NXP LPC processors and how I just started receiving a small salary after 4 years of not receiving any salary and putting ALL of my money into our company, etc.
> >
> > They just don't understand I guess.
> >
>
> Rolf and his team put a lot of effort into J-Links and their other software and I assume they are equally proud and protective of their creation as anybody else. The correct way to deal with this is for both sides to understand why things are the way they are, and that is really hard in many cases: broken USB chipsets, dicky USB hardware and hubs, recalcitrant target systems.
>
> We've found some fixes are as simple as replacing a USB cable. And, of course, it helps if customers turns the target board on! :-) Power supplies are the number one cause of much frustration. I'll say it again: when we work through an issue with a customer only for them to say "sorry, I had a bad power supply, replaced it, and it's all OK now", it makes us fume.
>
> -- Paul.
>
Oh, I KNOW they've put a lot of work into those !
In this case, nobody could make an attempt to help me with
my problem of obviously corrupted drivers. It wasn't a problem with the hardware in this case... Just drivers gone awry about once per week.
I sent a nice reply to them telling them exactly the problem I had with their "support" forum. Or lack of support in this case.
I also gave them an idea on a product improvement... To add a
USB isolation circuit to their programmer. We use several of their
$800 (USD) black programmers (same thing as a J-Link with different software evidently), and they would break some times until we started
using an isolator from PC to the product being programmed.
And Rolf made the assumption that our company was big and making lots of money and I had to tell him of course that I don't make much if any money (yet) and have given the last 4 years of my own finances into our company. Maybe some day it will pay off.
Oh, I also mentioned that competition is good, which it is.
I'm tired of being grabbed by the B*11s by large companies, IAR included. Xilinx too ! We've had problems with their CPLD JTAG programming cables and they do not warranty their units so we JUST this week took 5 of our programmers and finally fixed them. At least they are somewhat fixable. They're $250 a pop when they break.
Rolf should also have known that non students can NOT purchase their less expensive educational version of the programmer. I gather that Rolf is not an owner of the Segger company.
Thanks,
boB
Reply by ●May 10, 20122012-05-10
On 10 May 2012, at 23:47, boB G wrote:
>
> Rolf should also have known that non students can NOT purchase their less expensive educational version of the programmer. I gather that Rolf is not an owner of the Segger company.
>
You know, I think he is not *an* owner, he is *the* owner. :-)
-- Paul.
>
> Rolf should also have known that non students can NOT purchase their less expensive educational version of the programmer. I gather that Rolf is not an owner of the Segger company.
>
You know, I think he is not *an* owner, he is *the* owner. :-)
-- Paul.
Reply by ●May 10, 20122012-05-10
--- In l..., Paul Curtis wrote:
> On 10 May 2012, at 23:47, boB G wrote:
>
> >
> > Rolf should also have known that non students can NOT purchase their less expensive educational version of the programmer. I gather that Rolf is not an owner of the Segger company.
> > You know, I think he is not *an* owner, he is *the* owner. :-)
>
> -- Paul.
>
Yes, I just now found that out !!
I know what the problem is I think... He is just as frustrated as a lot of other companies out there, and so are we somewhat, that knowledgeable engineers and techs are almost impossible to find.
What has probably happened is that whoever did write the drivers and interface to the IAR C-Spy and debugger has gone somewhere else and there may not be anybody there that knows how it all works working at the company anymore.... Unless Rolf wrote this himself which I find hard to believe with such a hugely involved product. If so, he ain't thinking about this particular problem. Very possibly too many little problems and not enough engineers to fix them.
I know that we certainly can't find anybody that knows anything about windows drivers around here in the pacific northwest. If they worked for Microsoft, they've probably retired.
It amazes me that this stuff works at all. No wonder it is buggy as heck and crashes so much for unknown reasons.
I would like to turn these unknown reasons into known reasons so they can be dealt with.
I don't mind having bugs as long as I know WHY and/or what is happening.
I would rather not to have to re-install and re-boot my computer once per week if I can have some other way of fixing the problem. To do that, I have to have a better understanding of the problem, usually.
Right now, I would settle for a work around or a fix but nobody seems to understand the WHY of the problem.
I fear that technology is taking a step backwards these days.
boB
> On 10 May 2012, at 23:47, boB G wrote:
>
> >
> > Rolf should also have known that non students can NOT purchase their less expensive educational version of the programmer. I gather that Rolf is not an owner of the Segger company.
> > You know, I think he is not *an* owner, he is *the* owner. :-)
>
> -- Paul.
>
Yes, I just now found that out !!
I know what the problem is I think... He is just as frustrated as a lot of other companies out there, and so are we somewhat, that knowledgeable engineers and techs are almost impossible to find.
What has probably happened is that whoever did write the drivers and interface to the IAR C-Spy and debugger has gone somewhere else and there may not be anybody there that knows how it all works working at the company anymore.... Unless Rolf wrote this himself which I find hard to believe with such a hugely involved product. If so, he ain't thinking about this particular problem. Very possibly too many little problems and not enough engineers to fix them.
I know that we certainly can't find anybody that knows anything about windows drivers around here in the pacific northwest. If they worked for Microsoft, they've probably retired.
It amazes me that this stuff works at all. No wonder it is buggy as heck and crashes so much for unknown reasons.
I would like to turn these unknown reasons into known reasons so they can be dealt with.
I don't mind having bugs as long as I know WHY and/or what is happening.
I would rather not to have to re-install and re-boot my computer once per week if I can have some other way of fixing the problem. To do that, I have to have a better understanding of the problem, usually.
Right now, I would settle for a work around or a fix but nobody seems to understand the WHY of the problem.
I fear that technology is taking a step backwards these days.
boB
Reply by ●May 11, 20122012-05-11
>> Rolf and his team put a lot of effort into J-Links
and their other
> software and I assume they are equally proud and protective of their
> creation as anybody else. The correct way to deal with this is for both
> sides to understand why things are the way they are, and that is really
> hard in many cases: broken USB chipsets, dicky USB hardware and hubs,
> recalcitrant target systems.
>>
>> We've found some fixes are as simple as replacing a USB cable. And, of
> course, it helps if customers turns the target board on! :-) Power
> supplies are the number one cause of much frustration. I'll say it
> again: when we work through an issue with a customer only for them to
> say "sorry, I had a bad power supply, replaced it, and it's all OK now",
> it makes us fume.
Interestingly, if you buy a debug interface from Microchip (RealICE,
ICD3, etc.) they apparently warrant it for life. If it breaks, you just
send it back and they send another one - even if it broke because you
did something daft with it. I have myself sent stuff back, and received
replacements (albeit referbs, rather than brand new), so there is some
substance to the promise.
Regards,
Richard.
+ http://www.FreeRTOS.org
Designed for microcontrollers. More than 7000 downloads per month.
+ http://www.FreeRTOS.org/trace
15 interconnected trace views. An indispensable productivity tool.
> software and I assume they are equally proud and protective of their
> creation as anybody else. The correct way to deal with this is for both
> sides to understand why things are the way they are, and that is really
> hard in many cases: broken USB chipsets, dicky USB hardware and hubs,
> recalcitrant target systems.
>>
>> We've found some fixes are as simple as replacing a USB cable. And, of
> course, it helps if customers turns the target board on! :-) Power
> supplies are the number one cause of much frustration. I'll say it
> again: when we work through an issue with a customer only for them to
> say "sorry, I had a bad power supply, replaced it, and it's all OK now",
> it makes us fume.
Interestingly, if you buy a debug interface from Microchip (RealICE,
ICD3, etc.) they apparently warrant it for life. If it breaks, you just
send it back and they send another one - even if it broke because you
did something daft with it. I have myself sent stuff back, and received
replacements (albeit referbs, rather than brand new), so there is some
substance to the promise.
Regards,
Richard.
+ http://www.FreeRTOS.org
Designed for microcontrollers. More than 7000 downloads per month.
+ http://www.FreeRTOS.org/trace
15 interconnected trace views. An indispensable productivity tool.
Reply by ●May 11, 20122012-05-11
>
> It amazes me that this stuff works at all. No wonder it is buggy as heck
> and crashes so much for unknown reasons.
>
> I would like to turn these unknown reasons into known reasons so they
> can be dealt with.
>
> I don't mind having bugs as long as I know WHY and/or what is happening.
>
> I would rather not to have to re-install and re-boot my computer once
> per week if I can have some other way of fixing the problem. To do that,
> I have to have a better understanding of the problem, usually.
> Right now, I would settle for a work around or a fix but nobody seems to
> understand the WHY of the problem.
>
> I fear that technology is taking a step backwards these days.
I have to say my experience with Segger interfaces and drivers differs
from yours. I 'officially' support 18 different tools chains, and who
knows how many different development boards. Many many, different USB
interface with their drivers installed, etc. etc. You get the picture,
there is a *lot* of mixed up stuff on my computer.
There seems to be a trend towards having mini J-Links like interfaces
build directly onto development boards now too - so the variety of board
I connect to one way or another through Segger software is large - and I
can honestly say I have never had a problem, that I can recall anyway.
I would go further and say I am pleased when I see a Segger interface on
a board because I have confidence that there is one less thing that is
gong to give me hassle.
I do find, as I switch from board to board, the emulator firmware
version gets re-programmed sometimes, but it just does it all itself. I
even have some old KickStart J-links from probably 8 years ago that
still work, and used beta drivers on chips like the RX, and they worked too.
Compare that to my experience with things like the numerous FTDI
interfaces versions, which show no DLL mercy, well....
Regards,
Richard.
+ http://www.FreeRTOS.org
Designed for microcontrollers. More than 7000 downloads per month.
+ http://www.FreeRTOS.org/trace
15 interconnected trace views. An indispensable productivity tool.
> It amazes me that this stuff works at all. No wonder it is buggy as heck
> and crashes so much for unknown reasons.
>
> I would like to turn these unknown reasons into known reasons so they
> can be dealt with.
>
> I don't mind having bugs as long as I know WHY and/or what is happening.
>
> I would rather not to have to re-install and re-boot my computer once
> per week if I can have some other way of fixing the problem. To do that,
> I have to have a better understanding of the problem, usually.
> Right now, I would settle for a work around or a fix but nobody seems to
> understand the WHY of the problem.
>
> I fear that technology is taking a step backwards these days.
I have to say my experience with Segger interfaces and drivers differs
from yours. I 'officially' support 18 different tools chains, and who
knows how many different development boards. Many many, different USB
interface with their drivers installed, etc. etc. You get the picture,
there is a *lot* of mixed up stuff on my computer.
There seems to be a trend towards having mini J-Links like interfaces
build directly onto development boards now too - so the variety of board
I connect to one way or another through Segger software is large - and I
can honestly say I have never had a problem, that I can recall anyway.
I would go further and say I am pleased when I see a Segger interface on
a board because I have confidence that there is one less thing that is
gong to give me hassle.
I do find, as I switch from board to board, the emulator firmware
version gets re-programmed sometimes, but it just does it all itself. I
even have some old KickStart J-links from probably 8 years ago that
still work, and used beta drivers on chips like the RX, and they worked too.
Compare that to my experience with things like the numerous FTDI
interfaces versions, which show no DLL mercy, well....
Regards,
Richard.
+ http://www.FreeRTOS.org
Designed for microcontrollers. More than 7000 downloads per month.
+ http://www.FreeRTOS.org/trace
15 interconnected trace views. An indispensable productivity tool.
