I don't think my multivib drew quite that much, probably a few mW.

Al

alex@alex... wrote:

>Al,
>You remaind me of Tom Bearden that was powering 500W bulbs with an input
>of only 30uA :):):)
>http://www.cheniere.org/
>
>alex
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Onestone" <onestone@ones...>
>To: <msp430@msp4...>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 3:52 PM
>Subject: Re: [msp430] Random generator initialisation
>
>
>  
>
>>No it wasn't an April fool, or, if it was, it worked. Not so well
that
>>you could ever use it practically. The small multivib I powered required
>>a couple of hundred resistors, and it's quite possible that a fair
>>amount of the 'signal' was coming from locally radiated noise.
This
>>isn't really any different to powering an MSP from a lemon, in fact
a
>>slice of lemon is enough. It's cool, it's out there, but
it's a million
>>miles from practical. The first time I saw this was almost certainly in
>>my hobby era, ie over 35years ago. transistors were really new, to most
>>hobby mags then, and the odd circuit crept in. I may be wildly wrong
>>here but I believe the article may have been a sort of left handed
>>illustration of how little power transistors used compared to valves. I
>>think it was repeated many years later. It works, it isn't useful,
but
>>it's no more magical than keyless entry devices deriving their
power
>>apparently from 'thin air'. In my very early experiments with
this
>>concept, probably around 89-90 I had no trouble getting a small amount
>>of power, but often I would power up just from atmospherics, not the
>>nominally tuned frequency, the problem was getting something small, and
>>spot tuned to a frequency that wasn't active all the time. I have
seen
>>some commercial parts power up 'spontaneously', so a milliamp
or two
>>from noise shouldn't come as a surprise. The other hard thing was
>>finding something to power that needed little or no current.
>>
>>Al
>>
>>Matthias Weingart wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Onestone,
>>>energy from noisy resistors, wow! Do you have some more information
about
>>>      
>>>
>it?
>  
>
>>>How did you rectify the noisy AC? Is this really possible? (sounds
like a
>>>      
>>>
>april's foul)
>  
>
>>>Matthias
>>>
>>>On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 04:26:45AM +0930, Onestone wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>To go slightly OT (what me!). the reason why I used carbon
resistors was
>>>>based around a 'Wireless World' article on 'free
energy'. It had
>>>>proposed a 3D array of noisy carbon resistors as a possible low
current
>>>>power source. I tried it, since I had loads of 'scrap'
carbon resistors,
>>>>and it worked, although you couldn't run much off it. An
MSP430 would
>>>>possibly have worked, but this was well before that era. I
remembered
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>from these experiments just how noisy the carbon resistors had
been, and
>>>      
>>>
>>>>when I needed random they seemed just the job.
>>>>
>>>>Al
>>>>
>>>>Leon Heller wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>From: "augusto einsfeldt" <aee@aee@...>
>>>>>To: <msp430@msp4...>
>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 1:22 PM
>>>>>Subject: RE: [msp430] Random generator initialisation
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>I believe another way, without the need of an ADC, would
be using the
>>>>>>comparator (present in all MSP flavors) plus any flavor
of internal
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>timer
>  
>
>>>>>>and a pink or white noise generator similar to
AL's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>Zener diodes are very noisy and are often used as noise
generators.
>>>>>
>>>>>Leon.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>       Matthias
>>>
>>>
>>>.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>
>>.
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>.
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Clifford Heath wrote:

>Onestone wrote:
>  
>
>>The noise source was primarily Thermal IIRC, I recall playing around
>>with it in the oven...
>>    
>>
>
>Microwave oven...? :-) :-) :-)
>
Not in that day and age! Australia didn't even have TV back then. 
(though I was in th UK wher we had green TV.

>
>Seriously though, I wonder how much was thermal and how much was RF
>pickup.
>Did you look at it with a CRO at the time?
>
I suspect that a significant portion was RF, although The CRO my old man 
had was kHz not MHz. I could see increase in signal with heat, but had 
no ready source of high power RF. And the CRO wasn't exactly battery 
powere (in fact it was a bit of a space heater itself.

Al

>
>Matthias wrote:
>  
>
>>The new ultrabright LED's are glowing in the dark, just when you
touch
>>them.
>>    
>>
>
>Apparently the white LEDs use a UV LED with a phosphor, as in a
>fluorescent
>tube. Perhaps your static charge is generating fluorescense?
>
>Clifford Heath.
>
>
>.
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

It hadn't occurred to me before,  but I wonder if I could power an 
MSP430 from human bosy pick up?

Al

Leon Heller wrote:

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Matthias Weingart" <msp430@msp4...>
>To: <msp430@msp4...>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 10:38 PM
>Subject: Re: [msp430] Random generator initialisation
>
>
>  
>
>>On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 05:22:41AM +0930, Onestone wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>from noise shouldn't come as a surprise. The other hard thing
was
>>>finding something to power that needed little or no current.
>>>      
>>>
>>Its amazing: The new ultrabright LED's are glowing in the dark,
just when 
>>you touch them.
>>Seems to be a small elektrochemical current (not static discharge, its a

>>continous glowing).
>>    
>>
>
>More likely to be noise and mains hum from your body. I see lots when I 
>touch a scope probe, should be enough to light a LED.
>
>Leon 
>
>
>
>
>.
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Onestone" <onestone@ones...>
To: <msp430@msp4...>
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 5:52 AM
Subject: Re: [msp430] Random generator initialisation


> It hadn't occurred to me before,  but I
wonder if I could power an
> MSP430 from human bosy pick up?

It might work. Another option would be a random length of wire as an antenna 
and rectifying the signals that picks up. Some people have built 
self-powered radios that get their power that way.

There are watches that get their power from a tiny generator that uses body 
movement, and someone has used piezo elements built into trainers.

Leon 

My seiko kinetic uses a small generator. My MANIC system actually had a 
hand cranked generator for emergency recharging of batteries. A tiny 
thing with foldout handle. My fathers Longines used the older automatic 
movement, with a flywheel that wound a spring. It was bought over 50 
years ago, and still goes strongly, and quite accurately.

Al

Leon Heller wrote:

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Onestone" <onestone@ones...>
>To: <msp430@msp4...>
>Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 5:52 AM
>Subject: Re: [msp430] Random generator initialisation
>
>
>  
>
>>It hadn't occurred to me before,  but I wonder if I could power an
>>MSP430 from human bosy pick up?
>>    
>>
>
>It might work. Another option would be a random length of wire as an antenna

>and rectifying the signals that picks up. Some people have built 
>self-powered radios that get their power that way.
>
>There are watches that get their power from a tiny generator that uses body 
>movement, and someone has used piezo elements built into trainers.
>
>Leon 
>
>
>
>
>.
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Thinking a little about it, I think it is rectified HF that causes the LED 
to glow (well you see this HF in the scope too), with me as the antenna.
The 5mm distance between the pins seems to be enough potential difference
at HF-levels. I will check it next time I am in a GTEM cell. ;-)
 They need less than 1uA to glow and at this current the voltage is
low too. Have not seen a msp or converter running below 0.1 volts yet. :-)
(But I was not able to measure the voltage at the pins, when I connect
my multimeter the glowing stops. Have no high impedance volt meter.)

Matthias

On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 02:22:05PM +0930, Onestone
wrote:
> It hadn't occurred to me before,  but I wonder if I could power an 
> MSP430 from human bosy pick up?
> 
> Al
> 
> Leon Heller wrote:
> 
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: "Matthias Weingart" <msp430@msp4...>
> >To: <msp430@msp4...>
> >Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 10:38 PM
> >Subject: Re: [msp430] Random generator initialisation
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >>On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 05:22:41AM +0930, Onestone wrote:
> >>    
> >>
> >>>from noise shouldn't come as a surprise. The other hard
thing was
> >>>finding something to power that needed little or no current.
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>Its amazing: The new ultrabright LED's are glowing in the
dark, just when 
> >>you touch them.
> >>Seems to be a small elektrochemical current (not static discharge,
its a 
> >>continous glowing).
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >More likely to be noise and mains hum from your body. I see lots when I

> >touch a scope probe, should be enough to light a LED.
> >
> >Leon 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >.
> >
> > 
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
        Matthias