In message <if21md$nc7$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> writes>On 2010-12-23, justme <jbleaux@gmail.com> wrote: >> Getting back into uc after a long Sabbatical. When I ventured into >> other things, Keil C compiler/assember was the standard 8051 varient >> s.w. Also, Protel was a very viable printed circuit board layout >> package. >> >> I don't know what is best or available and accepted today. Could >> someone give me their advice? >> > >I can't help you with the 8051 compiler, but there are open source PCB >packages these days which may be suitable for you. Google for geda and >kicad. > >If you follow the ARM recommendations in the other thread, then gcc is >available for ARMSO is Keil. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
DE FACTO STANDARD 8051 C COMPILER AND PCB LAYOUT S.W.?
Started by ●December 23, 2010
Reply by ●December 26, 20102010-12-26
Reply by ●December 26, 20102010-12-26
Gosh, Linnix, have I confused you with Larwe? I beg your pardon. Joe On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 20:37:05 -0600, justme <jbleaux@gmail.com> wrote:>Linniz, > >Thank you for that input. > >It seems, by others comments, that you are a decent fellow. If that >is so, I apolgize for my comments about you. > >Oh, and Merry Christmas. > >Joe > >On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 15:00:35 -0800 (PST), linnix ><me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote: > >>On Dec 23, 2:33�pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote: >>> Hi Joe, >>> >>> On 12/23/2010 2:30 PM, justme wrote: >>> >>> > Getting back into uc after a long Sabbatical. �When I ventured into >>> > other things, Keil C compiler/assember was the standard 8051 varient >>> > s.w. �Also, Protel was a very viable printed circuit board layout >>> > package. >> >>Intel, along with others, stopped making 8051. >> >>> >>> > I don't know what is best or available and accepted today. �Could >>> > someone give me their advice? >>> >>> I think Keil is still a "respectable" product -- though I >>> think they were bought (?). >> >>by ARM inc. >> >>> >>> I think the same has happened to Protel (hasn't *everyone* in >>> that market been "bought" -- multiple times???). �You can >>> expect price to have gone up �:-/ >>> >>> A lot will depend on what you are trying to do, what you have >>> available ($$) to do it, the environment in which you are >>> operating (hobby, business, employee, ...) etc.
Reply by ●December 27, 20102010-12-27
On 26/12/2010 20:39, Chris H wrote:> In message<if21md$nc7$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Simon Clubley > <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> writes >> On 2010-12-23, justme<jbleaux@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Getting back into uc after a long Sabbatical. When I ventured into >>> other things, Keil C compiler/assember was the standard 8051 varient >>> s.w. Also, Protel was a very viable printed circuit board layout >>> package. >>> >>> I don't know what is best or available and accepted today. Could >>> someone give me their advice? >>> >> >> I can't help you with the 8051 compiler, but there are open source PCB >> packages these days which may be suitable for you. Google for geda and >> kicad. >>geda (and friends) is powerful, but harder to learn and work with. There are people using it even for very large multi-layer designs, but it is seldom used by professionals if their budget allows for tools like Altium. It is also most "at home" on Linux, though I believe it can be used on Windows (I don't know your preferences here). Kicad is a more integrated and light-weight suite, that is easy to learn. It is suitable for smaller designs, and is cross-platform. I don't know what low or medium budget packages are popular at the moment, if you are wanting something more than Kicad gives you but don't want to buy Altium. Perhaps Pulsonix is worth a look.>> If you follow the ARM recommendations in the other thread, then gcc is >> available for ARM > > SO is Keil. >And so are a range of other compilers - from free gcc, paid-and-supported gcc, through low-cost tools like ImageCraft, and up to the expensive toolchains like Keil (ARM) and IAR.
Reply by ●December 27, 20102010-12-27
On Dec 26, 11:35=A0am, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:> In message <577a949f-65f1-4a0a-bc98-bb0487eef...@l34g2000pro.googlegroup > s.com>, linnix <m...@linnix.info-for.us> writes > > >On Dec 23, 2:33 pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote: > >> Hi Joe, > > >> On 12/23/2010 2:30 PM, justme wrote: > > >> > Getting back into uc after a long Sabbatical. When I ventured into > >> > other things, Keil C compiler/assember was the standard 8051 varient > >> > s.w. Also, Protel was a very viable printed circuit board layout > >> > package. > > >Intel, along with others, stopped making 8051. > > However there are some 40+ manufactures producing some 600 odd 8051 > variants. =A0 =A0The 8051 is still the most common MCU on the planet (and=in> good numbers off the planet as there are several rad hardened 8051 MCU's > about >Yes, if you are maintaining apps in assembler, for small devices. However, for large memory spaces and in C, it doesn't make sense to start new projects with 8051. There are plenty of devices supported by gcc, other than 8051. Even if you are not using gcc, you know that they are better suited for C.
Reply by ●December 27, 20102010-12-27
In message <66590e47-556d-41c0-bbed-8a914110cb8b@o11g2000prf.googlegroup s.com>, linnix <me@linnix.info-for.us> writes>On Dec 26, 11:35�am, Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote: >> In message <577a949f-65f1-4a0a-bc98-bb0487eef...@l34g2000pro.googlegroup >> s.com>, linnix <m...@linnix.info-for.us> writes >> >> >On Dec 23, 2:33 pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Joe, >> >> >> On 12/23/2010 2:30 PM, justme wrote: >> >> >> > Getting back into uc after a long Sabbatical. When I ventured into >> >> > other things, Keil C compiler/assember was the standard 8051 varient >> >> > s.w. Also, Protel was a very viable printed circuit board layout >> >> > package. >> >> >Intel, along with others, stopped making 8051. >> >> However there are some 40+ manufactures producing some 600 odd 8051 >> variants. � �The 8051 is still the most common MCU on the planet (and in >> good numbers off the planet as there are several rad hardened 8051 MCU's >> about >> > >Yes, if you are maintaining apps in assembler, for small devices. >However, for large memory spaces and in C, it doesn't make sense to >start new projects with 8051.I used C on the 8051.... no point in using assembler when the Keil C gives better code density and performance.>There are plenty of devices supported >by gcc, other than 8051.Gcc does not support the 8051 and what gcc supports is irrelevant. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Reply by ●December 27, 20102010-12-27
Thanks, David. Well, I would like to get Altium and Keil if I can afford them. I have used both before. However, Altium was Protel then. Tools are surely expensive today. Dare I say it but, I am looking at the ARM xxxx1768. A lot of folks suggested ARM and at that time, I wanted to stay with 8051 cored micros. However, after a brief scan of the features of the ARM, I am going to take a more in-depth look at it. Can anyone recommend a/some great books on the ARM micros? Thanks all. Joe On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 09:51:24 +0100, David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:>On 26/12/2010 20:39, Chris H wrote: >> In message<if21md$nc7$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Simon Clubley >> <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> writes >>> On 2010-12-23, justme<jbleaux@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> Getting back into uc after a long Sabbatical. When I ventured into >>>> other things, Keil C compiler/assember was the standard 8051 varient >>>> s.w. Also, Protel was a very viable printed circuit board layout >>>> package. >>>> >>>> I don't know what is best or available and accepted today. Could >>>> someone give me their advice? >>>> >>> >>> I can't help you with the 8051 compiler, but there are open source PCB >>> packages these days which may be suitable for you. Google for geda and >>> kicad. >>> > >geda (and friends) is powerful, but harder to learn and work with. >There are people using it even for very large multi-layer designs, but >it is seldom used by professionals if their budget allows for tools like >Altium. It is also most "at home" on Linux, though I believe it can be >used on Windows (I don't know your preferences here). > >Kicad is a more integrated and light-weight suite, that is easy to >learn. It is suitable for smaller designs, and is cross-platform. > >I don't know what low or medium budget packages are popular at the >moment, if you are wanting something more than Kicad gives you but don't >want to buy Altium. Perhaps Pulsonix is worth a look. > >>> If you follow the ARM recommendations in the other thread, then gcc is >>> available for ARM >> >> SO is Keil. >> > >And so are a range of other compilers - from free gcc, >paid-and-supported gcc, through low-cost tools like ImageCraft, and up >to the expensive toolchains like Keil (ARM) and IAR. > >
Reply by ●December 27, 20102010-12-27
Also, any suggestions on ARM groups? Joe On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 15:20:55 -0600, justme <jbleaux@gmail.com> wrote:>Thanks, David. Well, I would like to get Altium and Keil if I can >afford them. I have used both before. However, Altium was Protel >then. > >Tools are surely expensive today. > >Dare I say it but, I am looking at the ARM xxxx1768. A lot of folks >suggested ARM and at that time, I wanted to stay with 8051 cored >micros. However, after a brief scan of the features of the ARM, I am >going to take a more in-depth look at it. > >Can anyone recommend a/some great books on the ARM micros? > >Thanks all. > >Joe > >On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 09:51:24 +0100, David Brown ><david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote: > >>On 26/12/2010 20:39, Chris H wrote: >>> In message<if21md$nc7$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Simon Clubley >>> <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> writes >>>> On 2010-12-23, justme<jbleaux@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> Getting back into uc after a long Sabbatical. When I ventured into >>>>> other things, Keil C compiler/assember was the standard 8051 varient >>>>> s.w. Also, Protel was a very viable printed circuit board layout >>>>> package. >>>>> >>>>> I don't know what is best or available and accepted today. Could >>>>> someone give me their advice? >>>>> >>>> >>>> I can't help you with the 8051 compiler, but there are open source PCB >>>> packages these days which may be suitable for you. Google for geda and >>>> kicad. >>>> >> >>geda (and friends) is powerful, but harder to learn and work with. >>There are people using it even for very large multi-layer designs, but >>it is seldom used by professionals if their budget allows for tools like >>Altium. It is also most "at home" on Linux, though I believe it can be >>used on Windows (I don't know your preferences here). >> >>Kicad is a more integrated and light-weight suite, that is easy to >>learn. It is suitable for smaller designs, and is cross-platform. >> >>I don't know what low or medium budget packages are popular at the >>moment, if you are wanting something more than Kicad gives you but don't >>want to buy Altium. Perhaps Pulsonix is worth a look. >> >>>> If you follow the ARM recommendations in the other thread, then gcc is >>>> available for ARM >>> >>> SO is Keil. >>> >> >>And so are a range of other compilers - from free gcc, >>paid-and-supported gcc, through low-cost tools like ImageCraft, and up >>to the expensive toolchains like Keil (ARM) and IAR. >> >>
Reply by ●December 27, 20102010-12-27
Thanks, D. I will be using it for business - eventually. What micro/s are you using? Joe On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 15:33:48 -0700, D Yuniskis <not.going.to.be@seen.com> wrote:>Hi Joe, > >On 12/23/2010 2:30 PM, justme wrote: >> Getting back into uc after a long Sabbatical. When I ventured into >> other things, Keil C compiler/assember was the standard 8051 varient >> s.w. Also, Protel was a very viable printed circuit board layout >> package. >> >> I don't know what is best or available and accepted today. Could >> someone give me their advice? > >I think Keil is still a "respectable" product -- though I >think they were bought (?). > >I think the same has happened to Protel (hasn't *everyone* in >that market been "bought" -- multiple times???). You can >expect price to have gone up :-/ > >A lot will depend on what you are trying to do, what you have >available ($$) to do it, the environment in which you are >operating (hobby, business, employee, ...) etc.
Reply by ●December 27, 20102010-12-27
Sorry, David. However, I always top post. It makes more sense to a lot of folks. Note, I didn't say everyone. Some like seafood, some don't. Joe On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 17:13:52 +0100, David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> wrote:>On 25/12/10 03:37, justme wrote: >> Linniz, >> >> Thank you for that input. >> >> It seems, by others comments, that you are a decent fellow. If that >> is so, I apolgize for my comments about you. >> >> Oh, and Merry Christmas. >> >> Joe >> > >Your apology, even if it was to the wrong person (it was Lewin "larwe" >you swore at, not linnix), has brought me back to following your thread. > But you might want to re-post your apology to the right person, in the >right thread. > >And /please/ don't top-post. It makes a mess of the posts, disrupts >reading order, and conflicts with the standard posting style that is >used in this group. Post at the bottom of the previous post, or mixed >in with it in answer to questions posed. If posts are getting unwieldy, >snip them to fit. > >mvh., > >David
Reply by ●December 27, 20102010-12-27
From the input that I am getting from folks kind enough to tell me of their preferences, it looks like Altium is the way to go. I used to use Protel before the Altium name. Joe On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 17:16:00 +0100, David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> wrote:>On 24/12/10 00:00, linnix wrote: >> On Dec 23, 2:33 pm, D Yuniskis<not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote: >>> Hi Joe, >>> >>> On 12/23/2010 2:30 PM, justme wrote: >>> >>>> Getting back into uc after a long Sabbatical. When I ventured into >>>> other things, Keil C compiler/assember was the standard 8051 varient >>>> s.w. Also, Protel was a very viable printed circuit board layout >>>> package. >> >> Intel, along with others, stopped making 8051. >> >>> >>>> I don't know what is best or available and accepted today. Could >>>> someone give me their advice? >>> >>> I think Keil is still a "respectable" product -- though I >>> think they were bought (?). >> >> by ARM inc. >> >>> >>> I think the same has happened to Protel (hasn't *everyone* in >>> that market been "bought" -- multiple times???). You can >>> expect price to have gone up :-/ >>> > >Protel hasn't been bought - it is one of the few remaining mainstream >EDA companies that has remained independent. But they changed their >name to Altium a number of years ago. And yes, their prices did go up - >but so has the amount of tools you get for the money. > >>> A lot will depend on what you are trying to do, what you have >>> available ($$) to do it, the environment in which you are >>> operating (hobby, business, employee, ...) etc. >>
