Frank Buss wrote:>> It depends - when talking about larger controllers (like ARMs, for >> example), USB generally does not really add cost. But with a small MCS51 >> or AVR (cost 1 Euro), RS-232 is definitely cheaper, in any concern >> (money, board space, power consumption, memory requirements, processing >> power). > >What about the MC9S08JS16?The 9S08JS is a good example for "nearly free" USB in a tiny microcontroller - as long as you need a crystal, anyway. 9S08 runs fine from the RC oscillator, precise enough for UART communication (but nor for USB). But even a crystal and two more uC pins usually don't cost more than the EIA232 level translator. Oliver -- Oliver Betz, Munich despammed.com is broken, use Reply-To:
Do you still use "RS232" or something else?
Started by ●January 14, 2011
Reply by ●January 17, 20112011-01-17
Reply by ●January 17, 20112011-01-17
Don McKenzie wrote:>> Since several people voted for USB - UART adapters, usually FTDI FT232 >> flavour: That's also my preferred solution for people not being >> long-sighted enough to by a suitable computer with a real comm port. >> >> But I suggest this only as a solution separate from my device (not >> integrated), because the installation requires Administrator rights, >> IOW is much more intrusive than I want one of my designs to be. > >For a selection of FTDI FT232 flavour devices, have a look at: >http://www.dontronics-shop.com/picaxe-ftdi-program.htmlThanks for the offer, but as I wrote, I consider it a bad solution to incorporate a FT232 in the device. I suggest our customer to use _one_ USB <-> EIA-232 adapter for his computer, not for our devices. We get such stuff very cheap from our German distributors (yes, FT232 based). Oliver -- Oliver Betz, Munich despammed.com is broken, use Reply-To:
Reply by ●January 17, 20112011-01-17
nospam wrote:>You can get bluetooth adapters which plug into a 9 way 'D' so it is easy >enough to try it.Well, that is still EIA-232 for my part. Oliver -- Oliver Betz, Munich despammed.com is broken, use Reply-To:
Reply by ●January 17, 20112011-01-17
On Jan 17, 12:34=A0am, Tilmann Reh <usenet2007nos...@autometer.de> wrote:> Oliver Betz schrieb: > > >>I'm not sure that the recurring cost of 232 is significantly lower > >>than a small MCU implementing a USB stack. =A0I have yet to add USB to =a> > > For the MCU side, USB can be cheaper then EIA-232. > > It depends - when talking about larger controllers (like ARMs, for > example), USB generally does not really add cost.I would resist as far as I can to include USB (even though I think of ARM as of a controller :-) )simply because it implies a third party approval. Technically for debugging it will not buy you much if anything - RS232 speeds and a terminal are plenty. I really see no reason why one would use USB unless doing work for MS. Where speed matters, we have ethernet - with all the mature and flexible internet protocols on top. If speed does not matter, RS232 is just fine. Dimiter ------------------------------------------------------ Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments http://www.tgi-sci.com ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/sets/72157600228621276/
Reply by ●January 17, 20112011-01-17
David Brown wrote: [...]>> Ah, Hyperterminal bashing. I also did so years ago. But it's not >> justified. There is a flaw in newly created sessions, and there is an >> easy workaround (save .ht and re-open). Besides this, it is not so >> bad. >> >> Which terminal program do you suggest to be sent to customers? >> >> Any pealr I didn't list on >> http://wiki.oliverbetz.de/owiki.php/TerminalPrograms ? > >You already have my favourite, Tera Term Pro, on your list. But youMight be your favourite, but not what I consider a lightweigt solution for the occasional user. Does it still install special fonts? If it doesn't come with the OS, it has to be as simple as OCConsole, Termite etc., preferably just one executable. Run it, delete it (and maybe an INI file), no traces left.>might want to add a link to the current version at ><http://ttssh2.sourceforge.jp/> . It has a large number of enhancementsThere is already the link to the project page http://sourceforge.jp/projects/ttssh2/ Oliver -- Oliver Betz, Munich despammed.com is broken, use Reply-To:
Reply by ●January 17, 20112011-01-17
On Jan 17, 10:33=A0am, Didi <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote:> On Jan 17, 12:34=A0am, Tilmann Reh <usenet2007nos...@autometer.de> > wrote: > > > Oliver Betz schrieb: > > > >>I'm not sure that the recurring cost of 232 is significantly lower > > >>than a small MCU implementing a USB stack. =A0I have yet to add USB t=o a> > > > For the MCU side, USB can be cheaper then EIA-232. > > > It depends - when talking about larger controllers (like ARMs, for > > example), USB generally does not really add cost. > > I would resist as far as I can to include USB (even though I think of > ARM > as of a **SMALL**, editing my previous post :-) controller :-) )simply be=cause it implies a third party> approval. > =A0Technically for debugging it will not buy you much if anything - > RS232 > speeds and a terminal are plenty. > =A0I really see no reason why one would use USB unless doing work for > MS. > Where speed matters, we have ethernet - with all the mature and > flexible > internet protocols on top. > If speed does not matter, RS232 is just fine. > > Dimiter > > ------------------------------------------------------ > Dimiter Popoff =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Transgalactic Instruments > > http://www.tgi-sci.com > ------------------------------------------------------http://www.flickr.c=om/photos/didi_tgi/sets/72157600228621276/
Reply by ●January 17, 20112011-01-17
On 17/01/2011 09:33, Oliver Betz wrote:> David Brown wrote: > > [...] > >>> Ah, Hyperterminal bashing. I also did so years ago. But it's not >>> justified. There is a flaw in newly created sessions, and there is an >>> easy workaround (save .ht and re-open). Besides this, it is not so >>> bad. >>> >>> Which terminal program do you suggest to be sent to customers? >>> >>> Any pealr I didn't list on >>> http://wiki.oliverbetz.de/owiki.php/TerminalPrograms ? >> >> You already have my favourite, Tera Term Pro, on your list. But you > > Might be your favourite, but not what I consider a lightweigt solution > for the occasional user. Does it still install special fonts? >I don't know about the special fonts (never noticed if it needs them or not), but I agree that it is not the most lightweight solution - I dislike the extra couple of programs it installs by default. However, once it is in place, it is simple and fast to use, and has plenty of features for when you need them.> If it doesn't come with the OS, it has to be as simple as OCConsole, > Termite etc., preferably just one executable. Run it, delete it (and > maybe an INI file), no traces left. >Certainly such programs have their place. For my use (and my customers' use), it is fine to leave TTP installed on the machine, and it therefore doesn't matter if it is a little bigger than necessary.>> might want to add a link to the current version at >> <http://ttssh2.sourceforge.jp/> . It has a large number of enhancements > > There is already the link to the project page > http://sourceforge.jp/projects/ttssh2/ >That link works, but is less clear than the one I gave. It ends up with the same program in both cases, but my link leads you quicker to information about the program rather than just the download link. It's a useful list you've made, by the way. I'll give a few others there a test at some point.
Reply by ●January 17, 20112011-01-17
On 1/17/2011 3:33 AM, David Brown wrote:> On 17/01/2011 09:33, Oliver Betz wrote: >> David Brown wrote: >> >> [...] >> >>>> Ah, Hyperterminal bashing. I also did so years ago. But it's not >>>> justified. There is a flaw in newly created sessions, and there is an >>>> easy workaround (save .ht and re-open). Besides this, it is not so >>>> bad. >>>> >>>> Which terminal program do you suggest to be sent to customers? >>>> >>>> Any pealr I didn't list on >>>> http://wiki.oliverbetz.de/owiki.php/TerminalPrograms ? >>> >>> You already have my favourite, Tera Term Pro, on your list. But you >> >> Might be your favourite, but not what I consider a lightweigt solution >> for the occasional user. Does it still install special fonts? >> > > I don't know about the special fonts (never noticed if it needs them or > not), but I agree that it is not the most lightweight solution - I > dislike the extra couple of programs it installs by default. However, > once it is in place, it is simple and fast to use, and has plenty of > features for when you need them.I just checked my TeratermPro install directory. Total size is about 5MB. What do you consider lightweight ? Were talking Windoze here, nothing in WXP in that small. What I would like to see is a term program that displays hex values. Thanks hamilton> >> If it doesn't come with the OS, it has to be as simple as OCConsole, >> Termite etc., preferably just one executable. Run it, delete it (and >> maybe an INI file), no traces left. >> > > Certainly such programs have their place. For my use (and my customers' > use), it is fine to leave TTP installed on the machine, and it therefore > doesn't matter if it is a little bigger than necessary. > >>> might want to add a link to the current version at >>> <http://ttssh2.sourceforge.jp/> . It has a large number of enhancements >> >> There is already the link to the project page >> http://sourceforge.jp/projects/ttssh2/ >> > > That link works, but is less clear than the one I gave. It ends up with > the same program in both cases, but my link leads you quicker to > information about the program rather than just the download link. > > It's a useful list you've made, by the way. I'll give a few others there > a test at some point. > >
Reply by ●January 17, 20112011-01-17
On 17/01/2011 16:21, hamilton wrote:> On 1/17/2011 3:33 AM, David Brown wrote: >> On 17/01/2011 09:33, Oliver Betz wrote: >>> David Brown wrote: >>> >>> [...] >>> >>>>> Ah, Hyperterminal bashing. I also did so years ago. But it's not >>>>> justified. There is a flaw in newly created sessions, and there is an >>>>> easy workaround (save .ht and re-open). Besides this, it is not so >>>>> bad. >>>>> >>>>> Which terminal program do you suggest to be sent to customers? >>>>> >>>>> Any pealr I didn't list on >>>>> http://wiki.oliverbetz.de/owiki.php/TerminalPrograms ? >>>> >>>> You already have my favourite, Tera Term Pro, on your list. But you >>> >>> Might be your favourite, but not what I consider a lightweigt solution >>> for the occasional user. Does it still install special fonts? >>> >> >> I don't know about the special fonts (never noticed if it needs them or >> not), but I agree that it is not the most lightweight solution - I >> dislike the extra couple of programs it installs by default. However, >> once it is in place, it is simple and fast to use, and has plenty of >> features for when you need them. > > I just checked my TeratermPro install directory. > > Total size is about 5MB. >Current versions are about 10 MB.> What do you consider lightweight ?It's not so much the size of the program that makes it "lightweight". It's the number of extra bits and pieces, and the number of changes it makes around your system. I don't know off-hand how much TTP writes to the registry, but by default it installs a couple of extra programs such as "collector". It's that sort of thing that means TTP is no longer "lightweight", as it used to be. I am not saying it is bloated, and I find it very useful - but it is just not as lightweight as it could be.> > Were talking Windoze here, nothing in WXP in that small. > > What I would like to see is a term program that displays hex values. >RealTerm is one such program that I have used, though there are probably many more. Generally if I need to view serial communication in hex, I need to do more than just view it - perhaps interpret the data, calculate CRCs, etc. So I often use Python and pyserial and write some suitable capture scripts if I need something more than I can get from TTP.
Reply by ●January 17, 20112011-01-17
On 1/17/2011 8:57 AM, David Brown wrote:> On 17/01/2011 16:21, hamilton wrote: >> On 1/17/2011 3:33 AM, David Brown wrote: >>> On 17/01/2011 09:33, Oliver Betz wrote: >>>> David Brown wrote: >>>> >>>> [...] >>>> >>>>>> Ah, Hyperterminal bashing. I also did so years ago. But it's not >>>>>> justified. There is a flaw in newly created sessions, and there is an >>>>>> easy workaround (save .ht and re-open). Besides this, it is not so >>>>>> bad. >>>>>> >>>>>> Which terminal program do you suggest to be sent to customers? >>>>>> >>>>>> Any pealr I didn't list on >>>>>> http://wiki.oliverbetz.de/owiki.php/TerminalPrograms ? >>>>> >>>>> You already have my favourite, Tera Term Pro, on your list. But you >>>> >>>> Might be your favourite, but not what I consider a lightweigt solution >>>> for the occasional user. Does it still install special fonts? >>>> >>> >>> I don't know about the special fonts (never noticed if it needs them or >>> not), but I agree that it is not the most lightweight solution - I >>> dislike the extra couple of programs it installs by default. However, >>> once it is in place, it is simple and fast to use, and has plenty of >>> features for when you need them. >> >> I just checked my TeratermPro install directory. >> >> Total size is about 5MB. >> > > Current versions are about 10 MB.I saw my install directory was at 13MB, unitl I looked and saw the install file was in there at 5.3MB.> >> What do you consider lightweight ? > > It's not so much the size of the program that makes it "lightweight". > It's the number of extra bits and pieces, and the number of changes it > makes around your system. I don't know off-hand how much TTP writes to > the registry, but by default it installs a couple of extra programs such > as "collector". It's that sort of thing that means TTP is no longer > "lightweight", as it used to be. I am not saying it is bloated, and I > find it very useful - but it is just not as lightweight as it could be.I will check again, but I thought TTP did not use registry entries !?!> >> >> Were talking Windoze here, nothing in WXP in that small. >> >> What I would like to see is a term program that displays hex values. >> > > RealTerm is one such program that I have used, though there are probably > many more. Generally if I need to view serial communication in hex, I > need to do more than just view it - perhaps interpret the data, > calculate CRCs, etc. So I often use Python and pyserial and write some > suitable capture scripts if I need something more than I can get from TTP.I have not used Python, maybe its time I join the 21st century ;-) Thanks hamilton
