Demise of the COM port?

Viktor Kesler wrote:
> First it was notebooks, now even desktop PCs are made with just one or no
> RS232 ports.
> What's happening?
> For us embedded engineers who have developed uC products that communicate
> with PCs through COM ports, this situation is getting scary.
> I know USB/RS232 converters exist, but they're an added cost, very often
> make rebooting necessary and are often the cause of delays which can cause
> problems with protocols that worked well on genuine COM ports.
> 
> The asynch interface may not be fast, but it's cheap, easy to isolate
> galvanically and most uControllers have it built in.
> 
> Can we do anything about this trend? Wear 'COM port rulz' or 'USB go home'
> t-shirts or something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
Viktor,
      I know the feeling.  My suggestion is that you consider a 
ByteRunner card for the desktop as they are reliable, reasonably priced, 
  and the support is good.
      For the laptop I suggest National Instruments PCMCIA cards.  They 
have a one and two port model.  They are a little costly, but very good.
      I have also used Equinox's TCP/IP to RS-232 boxes with great 
success.  They are costly as well, but the reliability and support are 
also there.
      Hope this helps.  Let me know if you have any other questions.

Regards,
Dennis Zimmerman

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Viktor Kesler wrote:
> First it was notebooks, now even desktop PCs are made with
 > just one or no RS232 ports. What's happening?
Microsoft and the hardware manufacturers in bed together.

> Can we do anything about this trend?
Just say no. Don't buy a computer without an RS-232 port.

Hard to find? I didn't say it would be easy or cheap.

-- 
Gary Peek                mailto:mylastname@mycompanyname.com
Industrologic, Inc.      http://www.industrologic.com
Phone: (636) 723-4000    Fax: (636) 724-2288

On 18 Mar 2004 18:24:35 -0800, robertwessel2@yahoo.com (Robert Wessel)
wrote:

>Al Clark <dsp@danvillesignal.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94B0B4B091990aclarkdanvillesignal@66.133.130.30>...
>> Usually you can fake it with a USB to serial adapter assuming that you 
>> communicate with standard COM calls.
>> 
>> I am more worried about the disappearance of the Parallel Port. Most new 
>> printers have a USB port. This is going to be a problem with all the 
>> simple programmers that we use for programming PLDs, Microcontrollers, 
>> etc.
>
>
>Of course USB->parallel adapters exist too (appear to be about $25). 
>Never used one, and I don't know how much low-level control they leave
>to the application (which may limit their use for some of those
>applications).

They don't, they are printer adaptors. 

Now, there is nothing from stopping you from using a basic USB I/O
chip to bit-bang the programming interface. Yes, it will require you
to re-write at least the programming software, but that is progress.

Interesting conversation - are there any interface chips that a micro can
use to talk to a USB port?


"Gary Peek" <mylastname@mycompanyname.com> wrote in message
news:405A706C.7000801@mycompanyname.com...
> Viktor Kesler wrote:
> > First it was notebooks, now even desktop PCs are made with
>  > just one or no RS232 ports. What's happening?
> Microsoft and the hardware manufacturers in bed together.
>
> > Can we do anything about this trend?
> Just say no. Don't buy a computer without an RS-232 port.
>
> Hard to find? I didn't say it would be easy or cheap.
>



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With laptops it is true!
But in desktop PCs, still most of the motherboards come with 2 serial ports.
Manufacturers don't provide connections outside.



"Viktor Kesler" <viktor@REMOVEcardware.co.yu> wrote in message
news:c3cuo2$60k$1@news.eunet.yu...
> First it was notebooks, now even desktop PCs are made with just one or no
> RS232 ports.
> What's happening?
> For us embedded engineers who have developed uC products that communicate
> with PCs through COM ports, this situation is getting scary.
> I know USB/RS232 converters exist, but they're an added cost, very often
> make rebooting necessary and are often the cause of delays which can cause
> problems with protocols that worked well on genuine COM ports.
>
> The asynch interface may not be fast, but it's cheap, easy to isolate
> galvanically and most uControllers have it built in.
>
> Can we do anything about this trend? Wear 'COM port rulz' or 'USB go home'
> t-shirts or something?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

In article <c3dcln$pn7$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
           broeker@physik.rwth-aachen.de "Hans-Bernhard Broeker" writes:

> Viktor Kesler <viktor@removecardware.co.yu> wrote:
> 
> > First it was notebooks, now even desktop PCs are made with just one
> > or no RS232 ports. What's happening?
> 
> Intel in their infinite wisdom have decided that PCs don't need all
> those "legacy" ports any more.  Instead of PS/2 key/mouse, parallel
> and serial ports, you get USB.  But that initiative has been announced
> and progressing nicely for *years* now.  Where've you been all that
> time?
> 
> Actually, I think the situation is relatively benign for serial ports,
> so far.  You try to find a notebook with a fully functional parallel
> port (EPP/ECP/ISO modes included) and you'll find that's even harder.

I am in the process of making sure that information on one of my old
laptops is transferred over to my current desk machine. The newer 
laptop has been linuxed and I still have not fully resolved all the 
tools issues to make that machine my main travelling development
system.

I would be OK with the following:-
   RS232 Serial - 9 pin standard
   USB/Firewire
   Ethernet 10/100

I have no need for a parallel port as my development systems are all
comunicable via a serial interface. Even my EPROM blower is serially
connected. My printer sits on Ethernet (printer i/f in plug).

I would be comfortable losing the floppy drive but would always want
a CD drive on board (useful for the catalogue disks etc). Naturally,
large hard drives are a must as well as decent clear graphics.

-- 
********************************************************************
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On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:27:31 +1300, Roy wrote:

>Interesting conversation - are there any interface chips that a micro can
>use to talk to a USB port?

These are very easy to use, and quite popular:
http://www.ftdichip.com/index.html

-- 
  Max

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:40:09 +0100, Viktor Kesler wrote:

>First it was notebooks, now even desktop PCs are made with just one or no
>RS232 ports.
>What's happening?

RS-232 ports were dropped from the PC specification in 2000 (and they
started disappearing from Macs before that). Essentially, they're
obsolete.

>For us embedded engineers who have developed uC products that communicate
>with PCs through COM ports, this situation is getting scary.

Why? We've all known about this for at least four years now - that's
surely enough time to come up with an alternative strategy.

You can always add a PCI or PCMCIA card if you really must have a
serial port, of course.

>I know USB/RS232 converters exist, but they're an added cost, very often
>make rebooting necessary and are often the cause of delays which can cause
>problems with protocols that worked well on genuine COM ports.

Yes, latency will cause subtle problems with a (mostly) polled
strategy such as USB. A 100-baseTX Ethernet/RS-232 converter might
work better for you.

>The asynch interface may not be fast, but it's cheap, easy to isolate
>galvanically and most uControllers have it built in.
>
>Can we do anything about this trend? Wear 'COM port rulz' or 'USB go home'
>t-shirts or something?

Hell, no. We're all doing very nicely updating our outdated legacy
products for the new millenium, thanks ;o))

-- 
  Max

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:45:26 +0000, Ian Bell <itb@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>I think serial cards are still available.
>

We have been happy with these serial cards: http://www.softio.com/.

--
Chuck Cox 
SynchroSystems
chuckPORK@synchro.com, cccoxPORK@fas.harvard.edu
www.synchro.com
(my email is politician-proof, remove the PORK)

There are lots of chips, nearly any MCU that includes USB.  There are
also a lot of interface adapaters for USB off the shelf.  Mostly they
are RS-232 and parallel printer ports.  But if you design your interface
for the standard instead of what you can get the hardware to do outside
of its design envelope, then you have a shot at surviving upgrades.  

One suggestion, Cypress makes a PSOC "Invention board".  If you ask
nicely they will *give* you one.  This has an MCU that interfaces to USB
and a PSOC which you can write code for.  The source code for the USB
MCU is available if you want to figure out how to use it for comms.  


Roy wrote:
> 
> Interesting conversation - are there any interface chips that a micro can
> use to talk to a USB port?
> 
> "Gary Peek" <mylastname@mycompanyname.com> wrote in message
> news:405A706C.7000801@mycompanyname.com...
> > Viktor Kesler wrote:
> > > First it was notebooks, now even desktop PCs are made with
> >  > just one or no RS232 ports. What's happening?
> > Microsoft and the hardware manufacturers in bed together.
> >
> > > Can we do anything about this trend?
> > Just say no. Don't buy a computer without an RS-232 port.
> >
> > Hard to find? I didn't say it would be easy or cheap.
> >
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.620 / Virus Database: 399 - Release Date: 11/03/2004

-- 

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