"Max" <mtj2@btopenworld.com> wrote in message news:noul50hqvd6a3u58orkm4tokk4jbgssn8d@4ax.com...> > RS-232 ports were dropped from the PC specification in 2000 (and they > started disappearing from Macs before that). Essentially, they're > obsolete.Nonsense. ALL industrial PCs are still equiped with com ports. Because a whole bunch of rock-solid industrial protocols run on RS-232.> >For us embedded engineers who have developed uC products that communicate > >with PCs through COM ports, this situation is getting scary. > > Why? We've all known about this for at least four years now - that's > surely enough time to come up with an alternative strategy.Why? What exactly is wrong with a simple, cheap serial port? It's only the fault of the current game-driven PC industry that serial ports become obsolete on mainstream PC's. I don't see any real technical reason why serial ports should disappear. Meindert
Demise of the COM port?
Started by ●March 18, 2004
Reply by ●March 19, 20042004-03-19
Reply by ●March 19, 20042004-03-19
> You can't expect the PC manufacturers to want to support that niche > market. However you should be able to expect to find niche > manufacturers who'll sell PCI, USB, or ethernet adapters. > > --Or at least they will do the T-shirts for You :-) -- Best Regards Ulf at atmel dot com These comments are intended to be my own opinion and they may, or may not be shared by my employer, Atmel Sweden.
Reply by ●March 19, 20042004-03-19
On 2004-03-19, rickman <spamgoeshere4@yahoo.com> wrote:> There are lots of chips, nearly any MCU that includes USB.Eh? I can't parse that sentence.> There are also a lot of interface adapaters for USB off the > shelf.Some work well, some not so well. Unless you're trying to do tricky time-dependant stuff, most of the RS-232 ones seem to be OK. Word on the street is that some hande contol/status signals better than others. There are also plenty of different Ethernet attached serial ports available. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Let's send the at Russians defective visi.com lifestyle accessories!
Reply by ●March 19, 20042004-03-19
> > Why? What exactly is wrong with a simple, cheap serial port? It's only the > fault of the current game-driven PC industry that serial ports become > obsolete on mainstream PC's. I don't see any real technical reason why > serial ports should disappear. >I would say that plug-n-play is what killed the Serial port... By writing a software driver a USB connector can emulate the Serial port. Two less connectors to put on the board, smaller footprint,reduced costs. Jamie
Reply by ●March 19, 20042004-03-19
On 2004-03-19, Meindert Sprang <mhsprang@NOcustomSPAMware.nl> wrote:> "Max" <mtj2@btopenworld.com> wrote in message > news:noul50hqvd6a3u58orkm4tokk4jbgssn8d@4ax.com... >> >> RS-232 ports were dropped from the PC specification in 2000 (and they >> started disappearing from Macs before that). Essentially, they're >> obsolete. > > Nonsense. ALL industrial PCs are still equiped with com ports. Because a > whole bunch of rock-solid industrial protocols run on RS-232.In addition to USB and Ethernet attached serial ports, there are still plenty of PCI serial boards available. Who in their right mind would by a slotless PC as an embedded systems development host? Sheesh, you can by a 2GHz machine with half a gigabyte of RAM a quarter terabyte of disk space and a graphics board that does 3D shading in hardware for a grand total of $1000! And people are whinging because they've got to spend $20 for a serial port. Kids these days.... ;) -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I have accepted at Provolone into my life! visi.com
Reply by ●March 19, 20042004-03-19
"Roy" <rdhopkins@ihug.co.nz> wrote in message news:c3e0ch$usl$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...> Interesting conversation - are there any interface chips that a micro can > use to talk to a USB port? >AT89C5131 and there are some really cool ARM7/Flash parts with USB around the corner. The AT76C711 (24 MHz AVR + USB + 2 serial ports) on the Atmel website is really only for a few, very nice customers of ours. -- Best Regards Ulf at atmel dot com These comments are intended to be my own opinion and they may, or may not be shared by my employer, Atmel Sweden.
Reply by ●March 19, 20042004-03-19
> Why? What exactly is wrong with a simple, cheap serial port? It's only the > fault of the current game-driven PC industry that serial ports become > obsolete on mainstream PC's. I don't see any real technical reason why > serial ports should disappear. >RS-232 cables are not easy to use for the average PC user. * DTE + DCE * Male /Female connector. * Cables with strange internal coupling * Home made cables.... How much time have you spent trying to get RS-232 to work, and found out the cable was not suitable. A user simply cannot make those mistakes with USB. RS-232 means phones calls to the vendor. I do not know how many phone calls a user have to make for the vendor to lose money - they hate that RS-232 connectors are more expensive than USB connectors. RS-232 is limited to 115 kBAUD in std PC configurations. This is a pain when you have requirement for faster speed. Each RS-232 port needs I/O and Interrupt. You do not have many interrupts on a PC. Do you need more? -- Best Regards Ulf at atmel dot com These comments are intended to be my own opinion and they may, or may not be shared by my employer, Atmel Sweden.
Reply by ●March 19, 20042004-03-19
Meindert Sprang wrote:> What exactly is wrong with a simple, cheap serial port? It's only the > fault of the current game-driven PC industry that serial ports become > obsolete on mainstream PC's. I don't see any real technical reason why > serial ports should disappear.There's seldom any technical reason for these changes- one drawback of the serial port, like the printer port and the ISA bus, is that it's TOO easy. If they can sell you a whole new set of hardware AND software AND peripherals, they'll be happier. OK, the ISA bus stank. There could come a time when the PC is no longer the appropriate development platform for engineers... Paul Burke
Reply by ●March 19, 20042004-03-19
"Meindert Sprang" <mhsprang@NOcustomSPAMware.nl> wrote in message news:405b16d6$1@news.nb.nu...> > Why? What exactly is wrong with a simple, cheap serial port? It's only the > fault of the current game-driven PC industry that serial ports become > obsolete on mainstream PC's. I don't see any real technical reason why > serial ports should disappear."Game driven" PC industry? WTF does that have to do with serial ports? Maybe it's the AOL Instant Message PC driven industry that's the problem. Or the email and surf the web PC driven industry. Or the pay your bill online PC driven industry. The "technical reason" why com ports are disappearing is that it costs money (even pennies) to put them on a PC and 99.99% of the current PC buyers have *zero* use for one.
Reply by ●March 19, 20042004-03-19
On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:48:33 +0100, the renowned "Meindert Sprang" <mhsprang@NOcustomSPAMware.nl> wrote:>"Max" <mtj2@btopenworld.com> wrote in message >news:noul50hqvd6a3u58orkm4tokk4jbgssn8d@4ax.com... >> >> RS-232 ports were dropped from the PC specification in 2000 (and they >> started disappearing from Macs before that). Essentially, they're >> obsolete. > >Nonsense. ALL industrial PCs are still equiped with com ports. Because a >whole bunch of rock-solid industrial protocols run on RS-232.Which probably accounts for less than 0.1% of PCs sold. What kind of half-*ssed businessman or engineer would maintain a feature that costs significant money on every unit and virtually no customer needs? The need for PS2 ports is far greater (which is why they are still on there, despite being redundant with the USB).>> >For us embedded engineers who have developed uC products that communicate >> >with PCs through COM ports, this situation is getting scary. >> >> Why? We've all known about this for at least four years now - that's >> surely enough time to come up with an alternative strategy. > >Why? What exactly is wrong with a simple, cheap serial port? It's only the >fault of the current game-driven PC industry that serial ports become >obsolete on mainstream PC's. I don't see any real technical reason why >serial ports should disappear.Mainstream PCs are cost-sensitive. I can think of no reason an average PC user would miss having a serial port. USB does it all, and provides more speed, and substantial power. This reduces the cost of the PC and the peripheral (no external power supply for scanners, optical mice and other moderately power-hungry peripherals). Not to worry so long as there are PCI slots as standard.. we can take advantage of the mass-produced part and use a port board to adapt. Or adapt inside the product to USB. Or use a USB-serial adapter. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
