Atmel Bought by Microchip

On 6/29/2016 3:19 PM, sms wrote:
> On 6/28/2016 3:55 PM, rickman wrote:
>> Not sure how I missed this one for two months.  I see there is already
>> some serious contention with Atmel employees.
>>
>> http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1329412
>>
>> I wonder what it will be like for the sales force to be selling PICs,
>> AVRs and ARMs all into much of the same market space?  I wonder if the
>> PIC32 will finally bite the dust with ARMs all around it crowding it out
>> of the market?  Or maybe the dsPIC will go away?
>
> After Cypress dropped their bid for Atmel, and Atmel spurned Dialog, I
> thought that Intel might swoop in. Intel has been making noise about
> getting back into the embedded market, where they once had a huge
> presence with the 8051 product line (and before that the 804x line. They
> finally gave up on the idea of the x86 architecture in embedded.
>
> All these M&As of companies doing embedded stuff and Intel is left out.
>
> I think I'll go do a COP8 design.

What is M&A?

-- 

Rick C

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
> What is M&A?

Mergers and acquisitions.

In comp.arch.embedded rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/29/2016 1:59 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
> > Phil Hobbs wrote:
> >>
> >> Some Cortex M0s are under half a buck at distributor prices, which is a
> >> lot cheaper than an ATmega.
> >>
> >
> > This is also true. I haven't had the privilege yet.
> 
> Not sure if this is a valid comparison.  CM0s under a dollar are very 
> limited devices.  I can't imagine there aren't AVRs with similar 
> capabilities at similar prices.

Hmm, I am using STM32F030F4P6.  Advertised price in quantity is $0.25.
In small quantities it is cheaper than ATmega 328.  This ARM
processor in some aspects is smaller than ATmega 328: it has only
20 pins, 16kB of flash.  Also has no analog comparator and no
support to connect low frequency crystal.  OTOH 12-bit ADC
running up to 1Mps, 5 16-bit timers, DMA chanels and 4kB of
RAM for many tasks make it more capable than ATmega 328.

I think that for tasks which STM32F030F4P6 fits well it is
hard to find replacement in AVR line at comparable cost.
And there are bigger models in the same series, still
under 1 dollar.  Also, while limited I would not call
them "very limited": there are currently selling 8-bitters
which much more limited.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch

On 7/1/2016 4:03 PM, antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl wrote:
> In comp.arch.embedded rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 6/29/2016 1:59 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
>>> Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Some Cortex M0s are under half a buck at distributor prices, which is a
>>>> lot cheaper than an ATmega.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is also true. I haven't had the privilege yet.
>>
>> Not sure if this is a valid comparison.  CM0s under a dollar are very
>> limited devices.  I can't imagine there aren't AVRs with similar
>> capabilities at similar prices.
>
> Hmm, I am using STM32F030F4P6.  Advertised price in quantity is $0.25.
> In small quantities it is cheaper than ATmega 328.  This ARM
> processor in some aspects is smaller than ATmega 328: it has only
> 20 pins, 16kB of flash.  Also has no analog comparator and no
> support to connect low frequency crystal.  OTOH 12-bit ADC
> running up to 1Mps, 5 16-bit timers, DMA chanels and 4kB of
> RAM for many tasks make it more capable than ATmega 328.
>
> I think that for tasks which STM32F030F4P6 fits well it is
> hard to find replacement in AVR line at comparable cost.
> And there are bigger models in the same series, still
> under 1 dollar.  Also, while limited I would not call
> them "very limited": there are currently selling 8-bitters
> which much more limited.

Pin count is a huge driver in low priced devices.  In a tour of one of 
Atmel's manufacturing facilities it was pointed out that testers are 
very expensive machines and often the cost of a chip is driven by tester 
time.  So a package with fewer pins will nearly always cost less than a 
package with more pins.

Try to compare apples to apples in the package department.  It can be 
very important.

-- 

Rick C

antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl writes:
> Hmm, I am using STM32F030F4P6.  Advertised price in quantity is $0.25.

$0.528 at Mouser in qty 10000.  $0.89 in qty 100.  Qty to get it at 0.25
must be awfully large.

  http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32F030F4P6/

On 7/1/2016 4:33 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl writes:
>> Hmm, I am using STM32F030F4P6.  Advertised price in quantity is $0.25.
>
> $0.528 at Mouser in qty 10000.  $0.89 in qty 100.  Qty to get it at 0.25
> must be awfully large.
>
>   http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32F030F4P6/

You should know that Digikey and Mouser are not the places to get high 
volume pricing.  That is typically negotiated.

-- 

Rick C

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>> $0.528 at Mouser in qty 10000.  $0.89 in qty 100.
> You should know that Digikey and Mouser are not the places to get high
> volume pricing.  That is typically negotiated.

I guess that makes sense.  What counts as high volume though?  Is 0.25
in 10k qty plausible or would it take millions of units?

On 7/1/2016 5:49 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>>> $0.528 at Mouser in qty 10000.  $0.89 in qty 100.
>> You should know that Digikey and Mouser are not the places to get high
>> volume pricing.  That is typically negotiated.
>
> I guess that makes sense.  What counts as high volume though?  Is 0.25
> in 10k qty plausible or would it take millions of units?

For more expensive parts I had vendors salivating at 5000 year and got a 
quote for very good pricing.  Didn't go into production so I don't know 
if they would have stood by it.

-- 

Rick C

On 7/1/2016 5:52 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 7/1/2016 5:49 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
>> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> $0.528 at Mouser in qty 10000.  $0.89 in qty 100.
>>> You should know that Digikey and Mouser are not the places to get high
>>> volume pricing.  That is typically negotiated.
>>
>> I guess that makes sense.  What counts as high volume though?  Is 0.25
>> in 10k qty plausible or would it take millions of units?
>
> For more expensive parts I had vendors salivating at 5000 year and got a
> quote for very good pricing.  Didn't go into production so I don't know
> if they would have stood by it.

By more expensive I mean $10.

-- 

Rick C

In comp.arch.embedded Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl writes:
> > Hmm, I am using STM32F030F4P6.  Advertised price in quantity is $0.25.
> 
> $0.528 at Mouser in qty 10000.  $0.89 in qty 100.  Qty to get it at 0.25
> must be awfully large.
> 
>   http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/STM32F030F4P6/

$0.25 is from STM advertising.  Yes, there is large difference compared
to prices that small buyer gets from established places.  But the
same is with products from other manufactures.  I got mine from
Aliexpress seller, $0.44 in quantity 10, $0.43 in quantity 100.
Of course there is risk of fakes, but at least there is some
hope that Chinese are reselling from a big lot bought at
manufacturer price.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch