On 2016-07-25, Paul <paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk> wrote:> In article <nn56ct$jti$1@reader2.panix.com>, invalid@invalid.invalid > says... >> >> On 2016-07-25, pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Il 23/07/2016 05:01, krw@attt.bizz ha scritto: >> >> >> The AVR architecture isn't all that great >> > >> > I worked with PIC and AVR and IMHO AVR is much better. >> >> Talk about damning with faint praise... > > Me thinks, you resemble this to the which is better Cyanide or > Arsenic...Actually, I don't think AVR is all that bad. The lack of 16 bit operations is a PITA, but the gcc port is well done. Maybe the compilers for PIC have improved (yikes, it's been 10 years since I compated AVR and PIC), but the PIC compilers used to be dreadful. I just struck me that saying something is better than PIC is like saying somerthing is "more fun than passing a kidney stone". The yardstick these days for small/cheap MCUs is probably Cortex-M0 -- or even the venerable MSP430. -- Grant
Atmel Bought by Microchip
Started by ●June 28, 2016
Reply by ●July 25, 20162016-07-25
Reply by ●July 25, 20162016-07-25
On 7/25/2016 7:18 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:> > I just struck me that saying something is better than PIC is like > saying somerthing is "more fun than passing a kidney stone".There are times when listening to a boring friend I wish I would get a kidney stone... You never half to apologize when you are passing a kidney stone. -- Rick C
Reply by ●July 25, 20162016-07-25
On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 09:10:34 +0200, pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> wrote:>Il 22/07/2016 18:14, rickman ha scritto: >> On 7/22/2016 11:46 AM, pozz wrote: >>> Il 29/06/2016 00:55, rickman ha scritto: >>>> Not sure how I missed this one for two months. I see there is already >>>> some serious contention with Atmel employees. >>>> >>>> http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1329412 >>>> >>>> I wonder what it will be like for the sales force to be selling PICs, >>>> AVRs and ARMs all into much of the same market space? I wonder if the >>>> PIC32 will finally bite the dust with ARMs all around it crowding it out >>>> of the market? Or maybe the dsPIC will go away? >>>> >>> >>> I was a fan of Atmel AVRs and SAM D2x with all the ecosystem (Atmel >>> Studio 7, Atmel Software Framework, free compilers, ...). >>> >>> However I think Microchip purchased Atmel to kill it. Atmel online >>> support doesn't work anymore. Atmel MCU prices seem increasing. >>> >>> Too bad, I think I'll switch to ST and/or NXP. >> >> Whose online support *does* work? > >Before Atmel was bought from Microchip, I contacted directly Atmel >support (through my Atmel section of their website, "Open a support >case") and some guys helped me. The answers arrived about after 2-3 >working days.I assume you "bought _by_".> >Now it seems the Atmel support can't be contacted anymore.That's to be expected in such an upheaval. MicroChip support has been far better than Atmel though, as a large (and bleading edge) customer I could get hold of someone in Atmel anytime I needed it (not always a "good" answer).
Reply by ●July 25, 20162016-07-25
On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 09:15:41 +0200, pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> wrote:>Il 23/07/2016 05:01, krw@attt.bizz ha scritto: >> On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 17:46:56 +0200, pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Il 29/06/2016 00:55, rickman ha scritto: >>>> Not sure how I missed this one for two months. I see there is already >>>> some serious contention with Atmel employees. >>>> >>>> http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1329412 >>>> >>>> I wonder what it will be like for the sales force to be selling PICs, >>>> AVRs and ARMs all into much of the same market space? I wonder if the >>>> PIC32 will finally bite the dust with ARMs all around it crowding it out >>>> of the market? Or maybe the dsPIC will go away? >>>> >>> >>> I was a fan of Atmel AVRs and SAM D2x with all the ecosystem (Atmel >>> Studio 7, Atmel Software Framework, free compilers, ...). >> >> The AVR architecture isn't all that great > >I worked with PIC and AVR and IMHO AVR is much better.Perhaps but AVR has no reason for being. Any new customer has to have their head examined.>> and the framework is >> somewhat less great. > >They aren't so great, but usable. Anyway you can use gcc compiler (with >avr-libc) with your preferred tool....except for all the bugs and incompatibilities in the new releases. I think they use Xilinx' software development group. ;-)> >> AVR peripherals are quite nice, though. >> >>> However I think Microchip purchased Atmel to kill it. Atmel online >>> support doesn't work anymore. Atmel MCU prices seem increasing. >> >> "It" meaning Atmel? > >Yes. > > >> Nope. Meaning "AVR", perhaps (to probably). > >Microchip will kill AVR and many things related to Atmel: free gcc >compilers and tools, low cost debugger/programmers, mainly low cost devices.I don't see any of the above to be true. Well, the AVR part probably is. It's superfluous. I don't see them forcing expensive tools down the throats of 8-bit micro developers.> >> THe >> larger PICs are dead, IMO. A bit late. Though MicroChip is smart >> enough to make money where there is money to be made. >>> >>> Too bad, I think I'll switch to ST and/or NXP. >> >> To spite your face? > >I don't like Microchip support, tools, technical supporto, sales >approach. Nothing.I'm exactly the opposite. I like their support better and the company is run *far* better. Atmel dropped the ball several times on their ARM M7 rollout. I think MicroChip will listen to our needs better, too.
Reply by ●July 25, 20162016-07-25
On 7/25/2016 8:22 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:> On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 09:15:41 +0200, pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Il 23/07/2016 05:01, krw@attt.bizz ha scritto: >>> On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 17:46:56 +0200, pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Il 29/06/2016 00:55, rickman ha scritto: >>>>> Not sure how I missed this one for two months. I see there is already >>>>> some serious contention with Atmel employees. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1329412 >>>>> >>>>> I wonder what it will be like for the sales force to be selling PICs, >>>>> AVRs and ARMs all into much of the same market space? I wonder if the >>>>> PIC32 will finally bite the dust with ARMs all around it crowding it out >>>>> of the market? Or maybe the dsPIC will go away? >>>>> >>>> >>>> I was a fan of Atmel AVRs and SAM D2x with all the ecosystem (Atmel >>>> Studio 7, Atmel Software Framework, free compilers, ...). >>> >>> The AVR architecture isn't all that great >> >> I worked with PIC and AVR and IMHO AVR is much better. > > Perhaps but AVR has no reason for being. Any new customer has to have > their head examined.Can you explain that? -- Rick C
Reply by ●July 26, 20162016-07-26
On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 22:43:16 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:>On 7/25/2016 8:22 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >> On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 09:15:41 +0200, pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Il 23/07/2016 05:01, krw@attt.bizz ha scritto: >>>> On Fri, 22 Jul 2016 17:46:56 +0200, pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Il 29/06/2016 00:55, rickman ha scritto: >>>>>> Not sure how I missed this one for two months. I see there is already >>>>>> some serious contention with Atmel employees. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1329412 >>>>>> >>>>>> I wonder what it will be like for the sales force to be selling PICs, >>>>>> AVRs and ARMs all into much of the same market space? I wonder if the >>>>>> PIC32 will finally bite the dust with ARMs all around it crowding it out >>>>>> of the market? Or maybe the dsPIC will go away? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I was a fan of Atmel AVRs and SAM D2x with all the ecosystem (Atmel >>>>> Studio 7, Atmel Software Framework, free compilers, ...). >>>> >>>> The AVR architecture isn't all that great >>> >>> I worked with PIC and AVR and IMHO AVR is much better. >> >> Perhaps but AVR has no reason for being. Any new customer has to have >> their head examined. > >Can you explain that?Sure. There are better alternatives. New information: Microchip is significantly increasing AVR development. Go figure.
Reply by ●July 27, 20162016-07-27
krw@attt.bizz writes:>>Can you explain that? > Sure. There are better alternatives.That's not a very informative answer. Concrete suggestions would be helpful. ;-)
Reply by ●July 27, 20162016-07-27
On Tue, 26 Jul 2016 20:12:24 -0400, the renowned krw@attt.bizz wrote:> >Sure. There are better alternatives. > >New information: Microchip is significantly increasing AVR >development. Go figure.The sessions at their summer program include AVR and Cortex M7. I'm optimistic (don't care that much about AVR but some folks do). --sp -- Best regards, Spehro Pefhany Amazon link for AoE 3rd Edition: http://tinyurl.com/ntrpwu8
Reply by ●July 27, 20162016-07-27
On 7/26/2016 8:12 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote:> On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 22:43:16 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 7/25/2016 8:22 PM, krw@attt.bizz wrote: >>> On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 09:15:41 +0200, pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Il 23/07/2016 05:01, krw@attt.bizz ha scritto: >>>>> >>>>> The AVR architecture isn't all that great >>>> >>>> I worked with PIC and AVR and IMHO AVR is much better. >>> >>> Perhaps but AVR has no reason for being. Any new customer has to have >>> their head examined. >> >> Can you explain that? > > Sure. There are better alternatives."Better" in what way?> New information: Microchip is significantly increasing AVR > development. Go figure.I guess they know a winner when they see it. -- Rick C
Reply by ●July 27, 20162016-07-27
On Tue, 26 Jul 2016 21:30:38 -0700, Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:>krw@attt.bizz writes: >>>Can you explain that? >> Sure. There are better alternatives. > >That's not a very informative answer. Concrete suggestions would be >helpful. ;-)If you can't find them, you need your head examined. ;-)
