On Friday, November 20, 2020 at 8:01:07 PM UTC-6, Paul Rubin wrote:> Jim Jackson <j...@franjam.org.uk> writes: > > As we do not use Kiloseconds or Megaseconds, Hours as the accepted and > > understood multiple of seconds is a suitable standin, if not SI. > > Kilometres / Hour is the metric equivalent of Miles / Hour. > > Or are just being a pretty boring pedant, and probably wrong at that? > > Or am I missing a joke? > It's partly a joke and partly pointing out the silliness of those who > ridicule the US for not using metric. Kiloseconds and megaseconds are > metric units of time, hours are not. Yet people (even in supposedly > metric countries) use hours because they are comfortable human units. > Those countries use meters and hours, so they are only partially metric. > > In the US we do the same thing, but even further. We also use hours > (3.6 kiloseconds), but it also uses feet and inches (inch = 2.54 > centimeters). People from other countries who act superior about this > should get their own house in order (i.e. switch from hours, days, years > to kiloseconds, megaseconds, etc.) before complaining about ours. 1 > year = 31.5 megaseconds, 1 century = 3.15 gigaseconds. Let me know when > you have updated all your history books to use those units.Given that the computers which operate our banks, do GPS positioning and coordinate time zones all use binary, expect some day for AI to impose: 2**20 meters between the north pole and the equator, 32 inches per meter, 32 millimetres per per inch. 2**16 seconds per day with 64 seconds/minute and 64 minutes per hour ... E.g. the English got it somewhat right: pints, quarts, gallons. The French went decimal and now decimal is not cool.
Good Hardware Tools
Started by ●October 30, 2020
Reply by ●November 21, 20202020-11-21
Reply by ●November 23, 20202020-11-23
On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 19:31:28 -0000 (UTC), Brett wrote: <snip>>> In the winter I might have to turn off the HP during my electricity peak >> billing time and in the summer I'd have to chill the house in the AM to >> keep the temperatures down in the afternoon. lol, just kidding of >> course, but they do use a lot of power which gets turned into heat. At >> this moment, the laptop is the highest power drain that's running. I'd >> like to keep it that way. Heck, I'm considering replacing my fridge >> because the web says buying a new one will save enough electricity to pay >> for itself in five years or less. It's 30 years old too. >> > >The new fridge will fail in 5 years, planned obsolescence. >And the cost to run for your old fridge is a lie to get you to buy a new >one.It can really save money. My 21 year old 210/85L cool/freeze Bosch fridge failed, and it used 270 kWh/a (measured with an energy meter). And that one was for its time very efficient, 6 cm think walls of the cooling section. It needed one electronic repair on those 21 years. The replacement Liebherr, slightly larger inside, saves about 130 kWh/a . I fully expect it to last 20 years. Depending on your electricity price, it might not be a good idea to keep an old fridge running. Mat Nieuwenhoven
Reply by ●November 23, 20202020-11-23
On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 7:39:35 AM UTC-5, Mat Nieuwenhoven wrote:> On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 19:31:28 -0000 (UTC), Brett wrote: > > <snip> > >> In the winter I might have to turn off the HP during my electricity peak > >> billing time and in the summer I'd have to chill the house in the AM to > >> keep the temperatures down in the afternoon. lol, just kidding of > >> course, but they do use a lot of power which gets turned into heat. At > >> this moment, the laptop is the highest power drain that's running. I'd > >> like to keep it that way. Heck, I'm considering replacing my fridge > >> because the web says buying a new one will save enough electricity to pay > >> for itself in five years or less. It's 30 years old too. > >> > > > >The new fridge will fail in 5 years, planned obsolescence. > >And the cost to run for your old fridge is a lie to get you to buy a new > >one. > > It can really save money. My 21 year old 210/85L cool/freeze Bosch > fridge failed, and it used 270 kWh/a (measured with an energy meter). > And that one was for its time very efficient, 6 cm think walls of the > cooling section. It needed one electronic repair on those 21 years. > The replacement Liebherr, slightly larger inside, saves about 130 > kWh/a . I fully expect it to last 20 years. > > Depending on your electricity price, it might not be a good idea to > keep an old fridge running. > > Mat NieuwenhovenWhat is kWh/a? Is that per year? The marginal cost of 130 kWh to me is hard to estimate as I'm on ToU metering so it varies from $0.08 per kWh to $0.33 per kWh. The lower bound for the electricity savings would be $10.40 per year. That's not very much. An average cost considering the time duration of the peak charges would be about twice that amount. If I could find a reliable timing device I would have the fridge not run during the expensive peak times. The longest peak time is 4 hours and I fully expect the temperature to not increase significantly in that time. When the AC turns off the house warms up by 2-3°F. I expect the fridge would rise a lesser amount given the very good insulation they now have. -- Rick C. -+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●November 24, 20202020-11-24
On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 07:49:50 -0800 (PST), Rick C wrote:>On Monday, November 23, 2020 at 7:39:35 AM UTC-5, Mat Nieuwenhoven wrote: >> On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 19:31:28 -0000 (UTC), Brett wrote: >> >> <snip> >> >> In the winter I might have to turn off the HP during my electricity peak >> >> billing time and in the summer I'd have to chill the house in the AM to >> >> keep the temperatures down in the afternoon. lol, just kidding of >> >> course, but they do use a lot of power which gets turned into heat. At >> >> this moment, the laptop is the highest power drain that's running. I'd >> >> like to keep it that way. Heck, I'm considering replacing my fridge >> >> because the web says buying a new one will save enough electricity to pay >> >> for itself in five years or less. It's 30 years old too. >> >> >> > >> >The new fridge will fail in 5 years, planned obsolescence. >> >And the cost to run for your old fridge is a lie to get you to buy a new >> >one. >> >> It can really save money. My 21 year old 210/85L cool/freeze Bosch >> fridge failed, and it used 270 kWh/a (measured with an energy meter). >> And that one was for its time very efficient, 6 cm think walls of the >> cooling section. It needed one electronic repair on those 21 years. >> The replacement Liebherr, slightly larger inside, saves about 130 >> kWh/a . I fully expect it to last 20 years. >> >> Depending on your electricity price, it might not be a good idea to >> keep an old fridge running. >> >> Mat Nieuwenhoven > >What is kWh/a? Is that per year? The marginal cost of 130 kWh to me is hard to estimate as I'm on ToU metering so it varies from $0.08 per kWh to $0..33 per kWh. The lower bound for the electricity savings would be $10.40 per year. That's not very much. An average cost considering the time duration of the peak charges would be about twice that amount. > >If I could find a reliable timing device I would have the fridge not run during the expensive peak times. The longest peak time is 4 hours and I fully expect the temperature to not increase significantly in that time. When the AC turns off the house warms up by 2-3°F. I expect the fridge would rise a lesser amount given the very good insulation they now have.kWh/a is per year (annum), sorry. If you have an energy meter, measure your old fridge. I measured during two weeks in spring and again in autumn to estimate year use. A 30 years old fridge probably uses a lot of energy. I am on a constant price of 0.21eurocent (1 year contract), and the savings on electricity won't quite recoup the investment in the new fridge. But it had to be replaced anyway, and who knows what the price will do in the future, with ever more electirc cars. Mat Nieuwenhoven
Reply by ●November 24, 20202020-11-24
On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 2:53:57 AM UTC-5, Mat Nieuwenhoven wrote:> > kWh/a is per year (annum), sorry. > If you have an energy meter, measure your old fridge. I measured > during two weeks in spring and again in autumn to estimate year use. > A 30 years old fridge probably uses a lot of energy. I am on a > constant price of 0.21eurocent (1 year contract), and the savings on > electricity won't quite recoup the investment in the new fridge. But > it had to be replaced anyway, and who knows what the price will do in > the future, with ever more electirc cars.Ok, so I guessed right. So far my fridge is working ok. It used to keep the freezer at 0°F (-18°C) and the fridge at <45°F (<10°C). Lately the fridge is warmer than 45 and my milk goes bad faster that I'd like. This might be ice blocking air flow from the freezer to the fridge or something. They use flaps to control the difference between the two compartments. I need to remove some covers and check it out. I expect it's not mice or the cats haven't been doing their jobs and they are all about patrolling for mice. A new fridge won't help me debug logic either. -- Rick C. -++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging -++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●November 24, 20202020-11-24
Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> writes:> Ok, so I guessed right. So far my fridge is working ok. It used to > keep the freezer at 0°F (-18°C) and the fridge at <45°F (<10°C).45F is too warm for a fridge--it should be below 40F: https://www.fsis.usda.gov/shared/PDF/Danger_Zone.pdf Your idea of leaving the fridge compressor off for 4 hours at a time should really be tested by logging the internal temperature during the 4 hour period. I'm a little bit skeptical of leaving a kitchen fridge turned off for that long, especially during the part of the day when people will be opening it. It might be a reasonable approach for a chest freezer that's rarely opened.
Reply by ●November 27, 20202020-11-27
On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:46:15 -0800 (PST), Rick C wrote:>On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 2:53:57 AM UTC-5, Mat Nieuwenhoven wrote: >> >> kWh/a is per year (annum), sorry. >> If you have an energy meter, measure your old fridge. I measured >> during two weeks in spring and again in autumn to estimate year use. >> A 30 years old fridge probably uses a lot of energy. I am on a >> constant price of 0.21eurocent (1 year contract), and the savings on >> electricity won't quite recoup the investment in the new fridge. But >> it had to be replaced anyway, and who knows what the price will do in >> the future, with ever more electirc cars. > >Ok, so I guessed right. So far my fridge is working ok. It used to keep the freezer at 0°F (-18°C) and the fridge at <45°F (<10°C). Lately the fridge is warmer than 45 and my milk goes bad faster that I'd like. This might be ice blocking air flow from the freezer to the fridge or something. They use flaps to control the difference between the two compartments. I need to remove some covers and check it out. I expect it's not mice or the cats haven't been doing their jobs and they are all about patrolling for mice.I keep ours at -18/+4 Centigrade. If I was in the habit of turning it off for a few hours every day, I'd use -19/-3 or so. If your fridge uses flaps it sure is old. I suggest you measure its energyconsumption.>A new fridge won't help me debug logic either.No, hot coffee does it for me :-) Mat Nieuwenhoven
Reply by ●November 27, 20202020-11-27
On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 2:11:43 AM UTC-5, Mat Nieuwenhoven wrote:> On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 10:46:15 -0800 (PST), Rick C wrote: > > >On Tuesday, November 24, 2020 at 2:53:57 AM UTC-5, Mat Nieuwenhoven wrote: > >> > >> kWh/a is per year (annum), sorry. > >> If you have an energy meter, measure your old fridge. I measured > >> during two weeks in spring and again in autumn to estimate year use. > >> A 30 years old fridge probably uses a lot of energy. I am on a > >> constant price of 0.21eurocent (1 year contract), and the savings on > >> electricity won't quite recoup the investment in the new fridge. But > >> it had to be replaced anyway, and who knows what the price will do in > >> the future, with ever more electirc cars. > > > >Ok, so I guessed right. So far my fridge is working ok. It used to keep the freezer at 0°F (-18°C) and the fridge at <45°F (<10°C). Lately the fridge is warmer than 45 and my milk goes bad faster that I'd like. This might be ice blocking air flow from the freezer to the fridge or something. They use flaps to control the difference between the two compartments. I need to remove some covers and check it out. I expect it's not mice or the cats haven't been doing their jobs and they are all about patrolling for mice. > I keep ours at -18/+4 Centigrade. If I was in the habit of turning it > off for a few hours every day, I'd use -19/-3 or so. If your fridge > uses flaps it sure is old. I suggest you measure its > energyconsumption. > >A new fridge won't help me debug logic either. > No, hot coffee does it for me :-) > > Mat NieuwenhovenHow does your refrigerator control the temperatures of the two compartments when using a single compressor? If you set your refrigerator to -3°C, don't things freeze? My fridge would sometimes freeze things in the bottom when the temperature was set below 40°F (5°C). -- Rick C. +-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging +-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●November 27, 20202020-11-27
On 11/27/20 9:58 AM, Rick C wrote:> How does your refrigerator control the temperatures of the two compartments when using a single compressor? >Same way your furnace can heat different parts of the house to different temperatures, you use zones. You allow the chiller coils in the freezer to be able to run at different timing then the coils in the refrigerator. This does require more complicated control systems then the simple loop with a diverter.
Reply by ●November 27, 20202020-11-27
On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 10:17:56 AM UTC-5, Richard Damon wrote:> On 11/27/20 9:58 AM, Rick C wrote: > > > How does your refrigerator control the temperatures of the two compartments when using a single compressor? > > > Same way your furnace can heat different parts of the house to > different temperatures, you use zones. You allow the chiller coils in > the freezer to be able to run at different timing then the coils in the > refrigerator. > > This does require more complicated control systems then the simple loop > with a diverter.I've never seen a fridge that bothers with that. They just direct airflow. Why add needless complexity and cost to a simple device that works well? So your refrigerator has one compressor, but two sets of coils and a valve to change the flow of coolant and two thermostats? Yeah, that's a lot of money when designing a consumer item. I just checked and my fridge is now running at 34°F (1°C) and the freezer at -3°F (-20°C). I must have had the air flow blocked in the freezer. It was really packed tight. That was likely preventing adequate airflow to the refrigerator part of the unit. I've eaten a lot of the stores now and the air flow is restored. I have my power monitor on the Tesla at the moment. Once it is done charging later today I'll drag the fridge out and measure the wattage it uses. -- Rick C. +-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging +-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
