IDEA: ARM stamp SBC ?

rziak wrote:
> rziak wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I wonder if anyone makes something like Parallax did with PIC, but
>> populated with ARM ?
>>
>> Well, in case there is not, I estimate the parts for such device may
>> be around $10 for ARM with integrated SDRAM/FLASH and $10 for FPGA
>> plus few $ for PCB, labour, connectors. The ethernet is a nice
>> connectivity option but definitely not a must.
>
> Olimex with their LPC2106 is the closest (especially as the price
> goes). But all the units mentioned here are modest.
>
> I thought about putting the CPU (ARM or ??) with XC2S15 (452 cells,
> 15k gates FPGA). Just wondering if barebone Ethernet can be
> implemented in XC2S15 ? Or CAN transceiver ?
>

Using the AT91SAM7X chip you get both Ethernet and CAN onchip.
You can maybe find an alternative use for the FPGA...

This is in 100 pin TQFP, so I am not sure you can fit it into a 40 DIP
pinout
from a size point of view.
You probably want to have a PHY on the module as well then, because
otherwise
you are going to eat up all the pins.


> I would be willing to dedicate some resources to such project, but I
> prefer crunching algorithms on keyboard before soldering.
>
> Hopefully such device can be done for under $30 CDN parts and labour.

-- 
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com
This message is intended to be my own personal view and it
may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB

rziak wrote:
> rziak wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I wonder if anyone makes something like Parallax did with PIC, but
> > populated with ARM ?
> >
> > Well, in case there is not, I estimate the parts for such device may be
> > around $10 for ARM with integrated SDRAM/FLASH and $10 for FPGA plus
> > few $ for PCB, labour, connectors. The ethernet is a nice connectivity
> > option but definitely not a must.
>
> Olimex with their LPC2106 is the closest (especially as the price
> goes). But all the units mentioned here are modest.
>

Most of them don't have SDRAM or FPGA anyway.

> I thought about putting the CPU (ARM or ??) with XC2S15 (452 cells, 15k
> gates FPGA). Just wondering if barebone Ethernet can be implemented in
> XC2S15 ? Or CAN transceiver ?

I doubt it, not with 15K.  Why use such an old part for a new design?
I would go for XC3S200 (200K) at least.

>
> Started actually considering Lantronix DSTni-EX, has all the bells and
> whistles of networking processor. But have bad feeling about the power
> needs. And there was this discussion on this board few weeks ago about
> 186 being non "modern" CPU.
>
> Someone would be interested to contribute their knowhow to such
> opensource project ? Seems Atmel wants to provide some samples,
> although I was thinking more Philips LPC2100 series, but options are
> open.
>
> I would be willing to dedicate some resources to such project, but I
> prefer crunching algorithms on keyboard before soldering.
>
> Hopefully such device can be done for under $30 CDN parts and labour.

linnix wrote:
> > Olimex with their LPC2106 is the closest (especially as the price
> > goes). But all the units mentioned here are modest.
>
> Most of them don't have SDRAM or FPGA anyway.

Exactly.

> > I thought about putting the CPU (ARM or ??) with XC2S15 (452 cells, 15k
> > gates FPGA). Just wondering if barebone Ethernet can be implemented in
> > XC2S15 ? Or CAN transceiver ?
>
> I doubt it, not with 15K.  Why use such an old part for a new design?
> I would go for XC3S200 (200K) at least.

Even the smallest one is TQFP144. Even TQFP100 would not fit on DIP
size PCB with DIP connectors on the side.

Btw. I had a look at your board you mentioned in the earlier post, but
that is overkill for my purposes.

Ulf Samuelsson wrote:
> > I thought about putting the CPU (ARM or ??) with XC2S15 (452 cells,
> > 15k gates FPGA). Just wondering if barebone Ethernet can be
> > implemented in XC2S15 ? Or CAN transceiver ?
> >
>
> Using the AT91SAM7X chip you get both Ethernet and CAN onchip.
> You can maybe find an alternative use for the FPGA...
>
> This is in 100 pin TQFP, so I am not sure you can fit it into a 40 DIP
> pinout
> from a size point of view.

This is nice piece of hardware! Ethernet, USB, CAN, 2x USART, 2x SPI
... nice. And it is actually LQFP, so 2mm smaller than TQFP and
theoretically it could fit within 13-14mm, maybe few DIP pins could be
soldered from the bottom where CPU would be mounted.

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/view_detail.asp?FileName=ARMSAM7X_9_1.html&family_id=605

I see that Atmel just released this chip recently. Would you care to
lobby in Atmel to sponsor few devkits for such a project ? Hopefully
there is someone crazy enough to design 15mm wide PCB with it and 2
other ICs.

Any idea about price range in sub-100 or single quantities ? Digikey
(my favourite reseller) does not carry this part yet.

> You probably want to have a PHY on the module as well then, because
> otherwise
> you are going to eat up all the pins.

That is a good idea. Any suggestions for PHY ?

Thanks!

Ulf Samuelsson wrote:
> >> I wonder if anyone makes something like Parallax did with PIC, but
> >> populated with ARM ?
>
> Using the AT91SAM7X chip you get both Ethernet and CAN onchip.
> You can maybe find an alternative use for the FPGA...

Here is the thought:

DIP40 board would have SMT header from the bottom, something like

http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/TE/common/images/PartImages/1055014a.gif

this would leave all the real estate on the top available for AT91SAM7X
and FPGA (whatever can be fitted onto 16-18mm width).

Pin 20 would be ground and pin 40 would be power. All other pins would
contain CPU and FPGA I/Os. Ethernet PHY (DP83847 or DM9161) would be on
the bottom side with 8 signals going out via auxiliary header, i.e. not
reserving any DIP pins. Ethernet connector and magnetics would have to
be external.

Is it possible to boot FPGA from CPU instead of serial FLASH ?

"rziak" <news@ziak.com> wrote in message 
news:1130131479.030530.44620@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ulf Samuelsson wrote:
>> >> I wonder if anyone makes something like Parallax did with PIC, but
>> >> populated with ARM ?
>>
>> Using the AT91SAM7X chip you get both Ethernet and CAN onchip.
>> You can maybe find an alternative use for the FPGA...
>
> Here is the thought:
>
> DIP40 board would have SMT header from the bottom, something like
>
> http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/TE/common/images/PartImages/1055014a.gif
>
> this would leave all the real estate on the top available for AT91SAM7X
> and FPGA (whatever can be fitted onto 16-18mm width).
>
> Pin 20 would be ground and pin 40 would be power. All other pins would
> contain CPU and FPGA I/Os. Ethernet PHY (DP83847 or DM9161) would be on
> the bottom side with 8 signals going out via auxiliary header, i.e. not
> reserving any DIP pins. Ethernet connector and magnetics would have to
> be external.
>
> Is it possible to boot FPGA from CPU instead of serial FLASH ?

Yes its possible, xilinx has an app note for using an 8051.

http://www.hydraxc.com/  have 40dip modules with fpga
could use a microblaze or your own custom core
in a spartan3  or use a ppc in a virtex4FX
http://www.eubus.net/hydraXC/media/data_sheet_hydraXC_07_2005.pdf

Look at thier faq.
Pity about the aweful website - try using the shop.

Alex 

rziak wrote:
> Ulf Samuelsson wrote:
> > >> I wonder if anyone makes something like Parallax did with PIC, but
> > >> populated with ARM ?
> >
> > Using the AT91SAM7X chip you get both Ethernet and CAN onchip.
> > You can maybe find an alternative use for the FPGA...
>
> Here is the thought:
>
> DIP40 board would have SMT header from the bottom, something like
>
> http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/TE/common/images/PartImages/1055014a.gif
>
> this would leave all the real estate on the top available for AT91SAM7X
> and FPGA (whatever can be fitted onto 16-18mm width).
>
> Pin 20 would be ground and pin 40 would be power. All other pins would
> contain CPU and FPGA I/Os. Ethernet PHY (DP83847 or DM9161) would be on
> the bottom side with 8 signals going out via auxiliary header, i.e. not
> reserving any DIP pins. Ethernet connector and magnetics would have to
> be external.
>
> Is it possible to boot FPGA from CPU instead of serial FLASH ?

Yes, but the CPU must be able to run without the FPGA.  I.e. not using
the FPGA for CPU glue logics.  Anyway, what are you using the FPGA for?


Also, don't forget voltage regulators, 3.3, 2.5 for XC2, 1.8 for XC3
and ATSAM

Not an ARM but a fast 32 bit CPU in a 40 pin DIP.

http://www.netburner.com/products/processors/Mod5213.htm

Better A/D and ingeneral a full match feature wise.

As low as $19.00 in quantity.,


Paul

linnix wrote:
> rziak wrote:
> > Is it possible to boot FPGA from CPU instead of serial FLASH ?
>
> Yes, but the CPU must be able to run without the FPGA.  I.e. not using
> the FPGA for CPU glue logics.  Anyway, what are you using the FPGA for?

That's great. AT91SAM7X does not need FPGA for boot, of course. FPGA is
for configurability. Need interfacing CF or SD, various protocols my
customers invented ... But for most applications is may just be
chilling there powered down :)

> Also, don't forget voltage regulators, 3.3, 2.5 for XC2, 1.8 for XC3
> and ATSAM

Also has built-in 1.8V regulator.


And just for the record of this thread to keep the topic - I located
another one from www.netburner.com using 66MIPS ColdFire. No ethernet,
no programmable logic, just another one of those DIP adapter types. But
the ColdFire chip they used seems to have all the bells and whistles of
Atmel AT91SAM7X.

rziak wrote:
> linnix wrote:
> > rziak wrote:
> > > Is it possible to boot FPGA from CPU instead of serial FLASH ?
> >
> > Yes, but the CPU must be able to run without the FPGA.  I.e. not using
> > the FPGA for CPU glue logics.  Anyway, what are you using the FPGA for?
>
> That's great. AT91SAM7X does not need FPGA for boot, of course. FPGA is
> for configurability. Need interfacing CF or SD, various protocols my
> customers invented ... But for most applications is may just be
> chilling there powered down :)

Then may I suggest a soft-core 1 million gates FPGA with

1. Arm 7
2. 10/100 ethernet
3. SDRAM (DDR or SDR) controller
4. CF/xD interface for booting and ATA
5. USARTs
6. 300K free gates for your custom design

in a 12mmx12mm Fine pitch BGA, or we can mount it on a 100 mil PGA
(17x17 dual rows) for you.

It would be in the $99 range, depends on QTY.


>
> > Also, don't forget voltage regulators, 3.3, 2.5 for XC2, 1.8 for XC3
> > and ATSAM
>
> Also has built-in 1.8V regulator.
>
>
> And just for the record of this thread to keep the topic - I located
> another one from www.netburner.com using 66MIPS ColdFire. No ethernet,
> no programmable logic, just another one of those DIP adapter types. But
> the ColdFire chip they used seems to have all the bells and whistles of
> Atmel AT91SAM7X.