Joerg wrote:> What I am not tolerating is that when there is no way to get a part > anywhere else. Last case was a FET. I called the big company and told > them I or my client need x samples and we'd pay for them and the > shipping and all. They promised and then didn't come through. What > they don't realize is that a small consultant can have a substantial > impact on their bottomline when he then decides to design such a part outand> use one from ONSemi instead. Those decisions are typically final, for > the next ten years of mass production or so. It's big $$.When sample are out of stock they are out of stock. I remember one day, when our largest customer was promised samples 6 weeks after they had everything else and I went to a local catalogue company shop (ELFA) and bought it the same day and sent it to the customer. That customer certainly appreciated that the part were available. People seems to interpret poor (mismanaged) sample departments as evil intent.> > There is a reason why companies such as TI are more successful than > others. > Regards, Joerg > > http://www.analogconsultants.com-- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com This message is intended to be my own personal view and it may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
Ulf, what of these new AVRs? :)
Started by ●January 10, 2006
Reply by ●January 23, 20062006-01-23
Reply by ●January 23, 20062006-01-23
In article <XMWAf.14728$Jd.1956@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>, Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> writes>What I am not tolerating is that when there is no way to get a part >anywhere else. Last case was a FET. I called the big company and told >them I or my client need x samples and we'd pay for them and the >shipping and all. They promised and then didn't come through. What they >don't realize is that a small consultant can have a substantial impact >on their bottomline when he then decides to design such a part out and >use one from ONSemi instead. Those decisions are typically final, for >the next ten years of mass production or so. It's big $$.This is a problem in the UK there are a lot of small companies doing design for large companies who manufacture in the far east. So often the contractor/consultant* or small design outfit have no idea on the numbers that will be built by the people they are designing for. Or where in the world it will be built. The UK looks as though it only need 500 parts a week whereas the Far East use 500 a second. So the semiconductor companies put effort in the palaces they see the demand not realising that the need is actually being generated by small companies on the other side of the planet. This is one of the reason why the semiconductor companies and their distis will work with tool distributors. The tool distributors know who is developing on what parts or at least who is buying the tools. * A consultant is a contractor who plays golf :-) -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ /\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Reply by ●January 23, 20062006-01-23
On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:18:54 +0000, Chris Hills <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote:>In article <XMWAf.14728$Jd.1956@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>, Joerg ><notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> writes >>What I am not tolerating is that when there is no way to get a part >>anywhere else. Last case was a FET. I called the big company and told >>them I or my client need x samples and we'd pay for them and the >>shipping and all. They promised and then didn't come through. What they >>don't realize is that a small consultant can have a substantial impact >>on their bottomline when he then decides to design such a part out and >>use one from ONSemi instead. Those decisions are typically final, for >>the next ten years of mass production or so. It's big $$. > > >This is a problem in the UK there are a lot of small companies doing >design for large companies who manufacture in the far east. > >So often the contractor/consultant* or small design outfit have no idea >on the numbers that will be built by the people they are designing for. >Or where in the world it will be built. > >The UK looks as though it only need 500 parts a week whereas the Far >East use 500 a second. So the semiconductor companies put effort in the >palaces they see the demand not realising that the need is actually >being generated by small companies on the other side of the planet. > >This is one of the reason why the semiconductor companies and their >distis will work with tool distributors. The tool distributors know who >is developing on what parts or at least who is buying the tools.But Chris, it still doesn't make much sense to me to buy a tool before making a choice on a processor. I secure samples well _before_ I make a design-in decision and I build prototypes and test the CPUs, temperature ranges, their peripherals, memory, and their I/O pin characteristics with assembly code using free tools to do so, along with hardware, of course. I will sometimes also use the free period and reduced functionality compilers, if I care about such things in making a decision (which is true only sometimes.) While it is true that a tool vendor will probably hear about and know some information from me about my choice of parts, once I make a buy decision for the software tool, this (1) isn't always the case, because I don't always use a compiler but may use only the assembler tools, and (2) and most importantly, I never wait that long in order to secure sample parts. Usually, I am sampling the CPU for internal testing about a year before I actually need it and about a year before I will need a for-fee compiler tool. And longer wouldn't be unusual. Depending on a software tool vendor for samples would require the software tool vendors to be involved as a middle-man well before there was a design decision to use the part, let alone their tools. I don't think that's going to work so well for the chip manufacturer. Jon
Reply by ●January 23, 20062006-01-23
>> This is a problem in the UK there are a lot of small companies doing >> design for large companies who manufacture in the far east. >> >> So often the contractor/consultant* or small design outfit have no >> idea on the numbers that will be built by the people they are >> designing for. Or where in the world it will be built. >> >> The UK looks as though it only need 500 parts a week whereas the Far >> East use 500 a second. So the semiconductor companies put effort in >> the palaces they see the demand not realising that the need is >> actually being generated by small companies on the other side of the >> planet.Anyone using 500 per second is using close to 16 Bu parts per year. Methinks they would want to negotiate fraction of cents on the price before the final selecting is done. Even with fractions of the amount, they will negotiate a price. There is no reason for distributors to be at all interested in such companies, and every reason why a semiconductor company should be interested. There are way to get internal credit for designs, even if production is in far east. I really don't care if it is produced locally or in China, but I know some people that do.>> This is one of the reason why the semiconductor companies and their >> distis will work with tool distributors. The tool distributors know >> who is developing on what parts or at least who is buying the tools. >-- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com This message is intended to be my own personal view and it may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
Reply by ●January 23, 20062006-01-23
On 21/01/2006 the venerable Ulf Samuelsson etched in runes: . .> And if it works then you should get it in February > since that is when the general sampling begins of that part.Well, it's worked so far! First thing this morning I had an email fom a UK distributor requesting further information about my application. When I replied that it was for compiler development and testing and my ultimate annual quantity was zero, they were satisfied and have promised some parts ASAP. Keeping my fingers crossed. -- John B
Reply by ●January 23, 20062006-01-23
