DSP parts with free dev software/cheap dev tools?

Elan Magavi wrote:
> Definately go to www.spinsemi.com and check out the FV-1 developemtn system.
> Very cheap.

Those parts appear to be very specialized for audio work. My
application is very different from that...

-Mike

Tim Wescott wrote:
> It is my understanding that the DsPIC from Microchip has a gcc compiler
> available.  Check.

I understand that Microchip provides a free C compiler. DsPICs max out
at 40MIPS which is a little slow for my tastes, especially since they
are only 16b and most of the work I'll be doing will be on floats or
doubles.

> ARMs are pretty quick, and as mentioned elsewhere to really get the
> speed advantage of a DSP you have to sign up to some assembly
> programming, with some serious thought given to how the processor
> expects you to program it.

Most ARMs don't have FPUs, however. I am aware of a couple that do, but
that is a very uncommon feature among ARMs. Still, it is something I am
considering.

-Mike

Jonathan Kirwan wrote:
> On 19 Dec 2006 21:53:45 -0800, "Mike Noone" <nleahcim@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Hi - I'm looking at doing some DSP work (specifically, I'm working on
> >an AHARS system).
>
> Airborne Heading-Attitude Reference System?
>

Exactly. My plan is to have 3 axes of magnetometer, 3 axes of gyro, 3
axes of accelerometer, and a gps. The gyro and accelerometer will be
sampled at probably 2KHz. GPS will be coming in at 4Hz, not sure about
magnetometer (haven't chosen what kind to use just yet). I'll be mixing
the gyro and accelerometer data with a kalman filter. GPS and
magnetometer will be used to further fix the gyro and accelerometer
data.

> I've been using the ADSP-21xx series DSP processors for 15 years and
> more.  There was an older assembler, linker and so on that you may be
> able to get for free from Analog Devices support folks.  The
> particular toolset is their version 5.1 tools.  It came on three
> floppies and I've had their tools folks (one of them, anyway) send me
> a complete set of them (after losing my one.)  When getting that copy,
> the tool guy wasn't caring at all whether or not I owned a license to
> other products they do sell and I'm pretty sure Analog Devices doesn't
> really care anymore about that old toolset.  I have them still and if
> this is something you'd like I can call over to them and see if I can
> get permission of one sort or another to give you a copy.  (The ZIP is
> about 4.3Meg.)
>
> I also have the 37 page release notes for it.  This includes the
> following description:
>
>     =B7 The software may require up to 13.5 MB of hard disk storage-see
>       page 3 for storage requirements.
>     =B7 For all software except the C compiler, the minimum system
>       configuration is a '286 based PC with 2 MB extended RAM (DOS 3.0
>       or higher), a hard disk, 640K of memory, a color video card and
>       an EGA or VGA monitor, and a high density floppy disk drive.
>     =B7 The C compiler requires a '386 or '486 based PC.
>     =B7 The recommended system configuration is a '386 or '486 based PC
>       with 4 MB extended RAM, DOS 3.0 or higher, a hard disk, 640K of
>       memory, a color video card and an EGA or VGA monitor, a high
>       density floppy disk drive and a mouse.
>
>     What's New In This Release?
>
>     =B7 The release of ADSP-2181 and ADSP-21msp59 software development
>       tools. This release includes modifications to the System
>       Builder, Assembler, Linker, PROM Splitter, Compiler, C Runtime
>       Library, and two new Simulators. The details of ADSP-2181
>       support are covered in section 4.1, "New Features of Release 5.1
>       (ADSP-2181 Support)".
>
> That would be 'free.'  However, their cheap EZ-ICE board isn't around
> anymore, I believe.  They have something more expensive and fancy out
> there, now.  Not sure how much you could pull together for development
> but I thought I'd offer a thought, just in case.  I think you'd need
> to work to pull together a workable situation, but this toolset could
> get you pretty far if the processor is otherwise workable.
>
> Jon

I would think that something that aged would be substantially slower
than modern software. I really would like to maximize my usage of
whatever chip I end up with.

-Mike

Ken Asbury wrote:
> The Hitachi (now Renasis) SH-3 had what I consider to be a pretty
> decent free development environment called HEW which covered
> their entire SH and H8 line. The programming interfaces for both
> were well documented. I used it in a Windows environment but I
> understand that it also operated in the Linux environment.

"had"? So do you mean they no longer have free dev software for their
parts?

> As an alternative, if you have Microsoft's Visual Studio environment,
> the Intel 80X86 MMX instruction set makes and excellent DSP
> learning tool free on your PC.

I'm not looking for a learning tool though. I would need actual
hardware for this stuff to run on.

-Mike

Mike Noone wrote:
>>>Hi - I'm looking at doing some DSP work (specifically, I'm working on
>>>an AHARS system).
>>
>>Airborne Heading-Attitude Reference System?
>>the gyro and accelerometer data with a kalman filter. GPS and

Is this for a product or could it be open source ?

I would be interested in what you are doing if your open to it.

donald

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:58:04 GMT, Al Clark <dsp@danvillesignal.com>
wrote:

>Jonathan Kirwan <jkirwan@easystreet.com> wrote in 
>news:5hpho25lrhjgtf0g3d8vplurqgbgcuet6v@4ax.com:
>
>> On 19 Dec 2006 21:53:45 -0800, "Mike Noone" <nleahcim@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>Hi - I'm looking at doing some DSP work (specifically, I'm working on
>>>an AHARS system).
>> 
>> Airborne Heading-Attitude Reference System?
>> 
>>>I've never worked with a DSP - but I understand them to essentially be
>>>a microcontroller with especially strong math abilities. Thus this
>>>seems like a perfect solution to my needs.
>>>
>>>Problem is - it seems most all DSPs require expensive dev software and
>>>hardware. I'm coming from the ARM and AVR world where software is free
>>>and programmers are inexpensive. Being a student - this transition is a
>>>bit unpleasant.
>>>
>>>Are there any inexpensive routs into the DSP world? I'm looking for a C
>>>compiler and some way of programming a board of my own design (I don't
>>>plan on buying any dev boards).
>> 
>> I've been using the ADSP-21xx series DSP processors for 15 years and
>> more.  There was an older assembler, linker and so on that you may be
>> able to get for free from Analog Devices support folks.  The
>> particular toolset is their version 5.1 tools.  It came on three
>> floppies and I've had their tools folks (one of them, anyway) send me
>> a complete set of them (after losing my one.)  When getting that copy,
>> the tool guy wasn't caring at all whether or not I owned a license to
>> other products they do sell and I'm pretty sure Analog Devices doesn't
>> really care anymore about that old toolset.  I have them still and if
>> this is something you'd like I can call over to them and see if I can
>> get permission of one sort or another to give you a copy.  (The ZIP is
>> about 4.3Meg.)
>> 
>> I also have the 37 page release notes for it.  This includes the
>> following description:
>> 
>>     &#4294967295; The software may require up to 13.5 MB of hard disk storage&#4294967295;see
>>       page 3 for storage requirements.
>>     &#4294967295; For all software except the C compiler, the minimum system
>>       configuration is a &#4294967295;286 based PC with 2 MB extended RAM (DOS 3.0
>>       or higher), a hard disk, 640K of memory, a color video card and
>>       an EGA or VGA monitor, and a high density floppy disk drive.
>>     &#4294967295; The C compiler requires a &#4294967295;386 or &#4294967295;486 based PC.
>>     &#4294967295; The recommended system configuration is a &#4294967295;386 or &#4294967295;486 based PC
>>       with 4 MB extended RAM, DOS 3.0 or higher, a hard disk, 640K of
>>       memory, a color video card and an EGA or VGA monitor, a high
>>       density floppy disk drive and a mouse.
>> 
>>     What&#4294967295;s New In This Release?
>> 
>>     &#4294967295; The release of ADSP-2181 and ADSP-21msp59 software development
>>       tools. This release includes modifications to the System
>>       Builder, Assembler, Linker, PROM Splitter, Compiler, C Runtime
>>       Library, and two new Simulators. The details of ADSP-2181
>>       support are covered in section 4.1, &#4294967295;New Features of Release 5.1
>>       (ADSP-2181 Support)&#4294967295;.
>> 
>> That would be 'free.'  However, their cheap EZ-ICE board isn't around
>> anymore, I believe.  They have something more expensive and fancy out
>> there, now.  Not sure how much you could pull together for development
>> but I thought I'd offer a thought, just in case.  I think you'd need
>> to work to pull together a workable situation, but this toolset could
>> get you pretty far if the processor is otherwise workable.
>> 
>> Jon
>> 
>
>We sell a small credit card sized DSP board (DSP-8300) that uses an ADSP-
>2186M and an AC-97 codec. We supply it with the 5.1 Tools. These tools 
>were never copyrighted and were largely GNU based which is why they are 
>available for free.

Ah.  I see.  I only used the assembler tool.  It doesn't seem to be
GAS based, though.

>We also have SHARC based boards that include a built in ADI debugger. 
>These boards are supported with Visual DSP and will work with a free KIT 
>license. 
>
>Check out our web site if you are interested.

I will.  What a KIT license is, I suppose I need to read it to find
out -- unless I can assume that it means I can use them for a kit you
sell.

Jon

On 20 Dec 2006 09:08:38 -0800, "Mike Noone" <nleahcim@gmail.com>
wrote:

><snip>

>> That would be 'free.'  However, their cheap EZ-ICE board isn't around
>> anymore, I believe.  They have something more expensive and fancy out
>> there, now.  Not sure how much you could pull together for development
>> but I thought I'd offer a thought, just in case.  I think you'd need
>> to work to pull together a workable situation, but this toolset could
>> get you pretty far if the processor is otherwise workable.
>
>I would think that something that aged would be substantially slower
>than modern software. I really would like to maximize my usage of
>whatever chip I end up with.

I can't speak for the C compiler.  Never used it.  And frankly, I
doubt it does much with this DSP's capability of packing up to 3
instructions into a single word or in handling register-passing
optimizations on it.  But as your post suggests you are willing to
consider, writing in assembly also isn't unusual in the case of DSPs.
However, I'm familiar with numeric methods and perfectly willing to
work out the details of writing optimized equations in assembler on a
DSP.  You may not be and you have to be the judge here of what fits
your need.  I was only suggesting an alternative without really
knowing what skills you have or much about what you are trying to do.

Best of luck,
Jon

Mike Noone wrote:
> 
... snip ...
> 
> I would think that something that aged would be substantially
> slower than modern software. I really would like to maximize my
> usage of whatever chip I end up with.

On the contrary, it probably isn't wasting time on frivolous guis,
and is probably faster than whatever is 'modern'.

-- 
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
   <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>

Donald wrote:
> Mike Noone wrote:
> >>>Hi - I'm looking at doing some DSP work (specifically, I'm working on
> >>>an AHARS system).
> >>
> >>Airborne Heading-Attitude Reference System?
> >>the gyro and accelerometer data with a kalman filter. GPS and
>
> Is this for a product or could it be open source ?
>
> I would be interested in what you are doing if your open to it.
>
> donald

I'm currently thinking I'll open source it. Its end application is for
a robot I designed that has been completely open sourced. (though I
haven't publicly posted the URL for the website about it, as the
website is not quite finished). Then again, I think it might be
marketable - so I might sell the hardware while keeping the software
(and hardware design) free.

You might be interested in this open sourced kalman filter
implementation for a 6DOF IMU (3 accelerometer, 3 gyro):
http://www.dev6.com/

-Mike

Is there any TI or ADSP simulator  available for free?

On Dec 20, 11:48 am, CBFalconer <cbfalco...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Mike Noone wrote:
>
> ... snip ...
>
> > I would think that something that aged would be substantially
> > slower than modern software. I really would like to maximize my
> > usage of whatever chip I end up with.On the contrary, it probably isn't wasting time on frivolous guis,
> and is probably faster than whatever is 'modern'.
>
> --
> Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
>    Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
>    <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>