On 20 Dec 2006 13:44:41 -0800, "dspwhiz" <soumit.mukherjee@gmail.com> wrote:>Is there any TI or ADSP simulator available for free?The ADSP simulator is; the 5.1 version, anyway. Jon
DSP parts with free dev software/cheap dev tools?
Started by ●December 20, 2006
Reply by ●December 20, 20062006-12-20
Reply by ●December 20, 20062006-12-20
>>We sell a small credit card sized DSP board (DSP-8300) that uses anADSP->>2186M and an AC-97 codec. We supply it with the 5.1 Tools. These tools >>were never copyrighted and were largely GNU based which is why they are >>available for free. > > Ah. I see. I only used the assembler tool. It doesn't seem to be > GAS based, though. > >>We also have SHARC based boards that include a built in ADI debugger. >>These boards are supported with Visual DSP and will work with a freeKIT>>license. >> >>Check out our web site if you are interested. > > I will. What a KIT license is, I suppose I need to read it to find > out -- unless I can assume that it means I can use them for a kit you > sell. > > Jon >Visual DSP is the Analog Devices development tool. There are three licenses available. 1. Full Version. You buy this once and then upgrades are free. 2. Test Drive, same as full license for 90 days, then stops working 3. Kit License - sames as full license for 90 days, then restricts program size to about 1/4 of the DSP memory. Does not support simulator or external ICE. Requires EZ-KIT style debugger which is available on ADI EZ-KITs and some of our dspstak 21369 boards. - Free. You can create bootable images that can be loaded on our production boards or another target. -- Al Clark Danville Signal Processing, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com
Reply by ●December 20, 20062006-12-20
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 22:34:54 GMT, Al Clark <dsp@danvillesignal.com> wrote:>>>We sell a small credit card sized DSP board (DSP-8300) that uses an >ADSP- >>>2186M and an AC-97 codec. We supply it with the 5.1 Tools. These tools >>>were never copyrighted and were largely GNU based which is why they are >>>available for free. >> >> Ah. I see. I only used the assembler tool. It doesn't seem to be >> GAS based, though. >> >>>We also have SHARC based boards that include a built in ADI debugger. >>>These boards are supported with Visual DSP and will work with a free >KIT >>>license. >>> >>>Check out our web site if you are interested. >> >> I will. What a KIT license is, I suppose I need to read it to find >> out -- unless I can assume that it means I can use them for a kit you >> sell. >> >> Jon >> > >Visual DSP is the Analog Devices development tool. There are three >licenses available. > >1. Full Version. You buy this once and then upgrades are free. >2. Test Drive, same as full license for 90 days, then stops working >3. Kit License - sames as full license for 90 days, then restricts >program size to about 1/4 of the DSP memory. Does not support simulator >or external ICE. Requires EZ-KIT style debugger which is available on ADI >EZ-KITs and some of our dspstak 21369 boards. - Free. You can create >bootable images that can be loaded on our production boards or another >target.Ah. I have two full version licenses, so no need in my case. But I'm interested in details for others, who may be curious and wish to play as a hobbyist. Thanks, Jon
Reply by ●December 20, 20062006-12-20
Mike Noone wrote:> Donald wrote: > >>Mike Noone wrote: >> >>>>>Hi - I'm looking at doing some DSP work (specifically, I'm working on >>>>>an AHARS system). >>>> >>>>Airborne Heading-Attitude Reference System? >>>>the gyro and accelerometer data with a kalman filter. GPS and >> >>Is this for a product or could it be open source ? >> >>I would be interested in what you are doing if your open to it. >> >>donald > > > I'm currently thinking I'll open source it. Its end application is for > a robot I designed that has been completely open sourced. (though I > haven't publicly posted the URL for the website about it, as the > website is not quite finished). Then again, I think it might be > marketable - so I might sell the hardware while keeping the software > (and hardware design) free. > > You might be interested in this open sourced kalman filter > implementation for a 6DOF IMU (3 accelerometer, 3 gyro): > http://www.dev6.com/You have not mentioned the precisions or calculation rates you need, but one suggestion would be to take a std 32 bit C microcontroller, and code using that. We recently did a fixed point scaled problem, using the Zilog ZNEO. This has MUL/DIV opcodes with extended precision (32*32 -> 64, and 64/32 -> 32), and it also has a free compiler, and simulator. IIRC we did a 64 bit ratio and ten 32 bit divides/stores in appx 19us, using assembler (because what we needed was more easily done in assembler). It has 32 bit registers, and IIRC, the C has 32 bit float type, so would be a free 'reference point' - just grab the ZDS II from Zilog's web site. If that's not enough for your final app, another possible pathway, would be to use the Lattice Mico32 Soft CPU, with HW assist as needed. -jg
Reply by ●December 21, 20062006-12-21
Mike Noone wrote:> Jonathan Kirwan wrote: > > On 19 Dec 2006 21:53:45 -0800, "Mike Noone" <nleahcim@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > >Hi - I'm looking at doing some DSP work (specifically, I'm working on > > >an AHARS system). > > > > Airborne Heading-Attitude Reference System? > > > > Exactly. My plan is to have 3 axes of magnetometer, 3 axes of gyro, 3 > axes of accelerometer, and a gps. The gyro and accelerometer will be > sampled at probably 2KHz. GPS will be coming in at 4Hz, not sure about > magnetometer (haven't chosen what kind to use just yet). I'll be mixing > the gyro and accelerometer data with a kalman filter. GPS and > magnetometer will be used to further fix the gyro and accelerometer > data.if you are using the gyro/accelerometers I think you are using they have about 10% accuracy specs out of the box, so that is less then 4 bits of meaningful data, floating point math would be overkill, 16 bit math would even be overkill, the ARM would be overkill, you don't need a floating point DSP, use what you know, the ARM
Reply by ●December 21, 20062006-12-21
In article <1166634518.825042.94640@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com>, Mike Noone <nleahcim@gmail.com> wrote:> Jonathan Kirwan wrote: > > On 19 Dec 2006 21:53:45 -0800, "Mike Noone" <nleahcim@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > >Hi - I'm looking at doing some DSP work (specifically, I'm working on > > >an AHARS system). > > > > Airborne Heading-Attitude Reference System? > > > > Exactly. My plan is to have 3 axes of magnetometer, 3 axes of gyro, 3 > axes of accelerometer, and a gps. The gyro and accelerometer will be > sampled at probably 2KHz. GPS will be coming in at 4Hz, not sure about > magnetometer (haven't chosen what kind to use just yet). I'll be mixing > the gyro and accelerometer data with a kalman filter. GPS and > magnetometer will be used to further fix the gyro and accelerometer > data.If you're going to do that much, may I suggest that you also continuously pipe the data into a flash memory, such as an SD card, embedded in a few cubic inches of steel. (If you just cycle continuously at a few kB per minute or so, you won't run into lifetime issues.) This will give you a black box flight recorder functionality for a very small increment in price and other resources. It may break in some accidents that the real FCC-approved version would survive, and won't be a cockpit-voice-recorder, but providing some flight data for merely most crashes would be better than no data at all.> > > I've been using the ADSP-21xx series DSP processors for 15 years and > > more. There was an older assembler, linker and so on that you may be > > able to get for free from Analog Devices support folks.There's a gcc toolchain (free software license, of course) for the ADSP-21xx, which was what they used to ship. There's also their more expensive toolchain that gives much better code, and may be worth it. But at 2 kHz input rate, you hardly need a high performance DSP for your processing. -- David M. Palmer dmpalmer@email.com (formerly @clark.net, @ematic.com)
Reply by ●December 21, 20062006-12-21
Mike Noone wrote:> Ken Asbury wrote: > > The Hitachi (now Renasis) SH-3 had what I consider to be a pretty > > decent free development environment called HEW which covered > > their entire SH and H8 line. The programming interfaces for both > > were well documented. I used it in a Windows environment but I > > understand that it also operated in the Linux environment. > > "had"? So do you mean they no longer have free dev software for their > parts? > > > As an alternative, if you have Microsoft's Visual Studio environment, > > the Intel 80X86 MMX instruction set makes and excellent DSP > > learning tool free on your PC. > > I'm not looking for a learning tool though. I would need actual > hardware for this stuff to run on. > > -MikeMike, By 'had" I meant that I have not had any experience with their products since 2003 (before the merger) and did not wish to speak assertively about that for which I have no current knowledge. I presumed that, if curious, you would Google for "hew hitachi" or suchlike, where you would learn that I mis-spelled Renesas, and, demonstrating the initiative and ingenuity for which engineers are often noted, would then retry Google with 'hew renesas' to determined that HEW is now available in a time-limited version at: www2.eu.renesas.com/products/mpumcu/tool/hew/support.html I'd dig up pricing and availability for the chip, license and development boards for you but, if you can spell 'Arrow' or 'Avnet', their FAEs can probably save us both time. So, now that I've had my grump for the day I can go back to being my usual sweet charming self. Regards, Ken
Reply by ●December 21, 20062006-12-21
Mike Noone <nleahcim@gmail.com> wrote:> Ken Asbury wrote: >> The Hitachi (now Renasis) SH-3 had what I consider to be a pretty >> decent free development environment called HEW which covered >> their entire SH and H8 line. The programming interfaces for both >> were well documented. I used it in a Windows environment but I >> understand that it also operated in the Linux environment. > "had"? So do you mean they no longer have free dev software for their > parts?You can get the Renesas HEW IDE for free bundled with a GNU toolchain from KPIT Cummins Infosystems Ltd., <http://www.kpitgnutools.com/>. You do have to register, but at least I haven't received anything except update notices from them. Renesas' own toolchains are to the best of my knowledge not available for free. -a
Reply by ●December 22, 20062006-12-22
On Dec 20, 9:15 pm, "steve" <bungalow_st...@yahoo.com> wrote:> if you are using the gyro/accelerometers I think you are using they > have about 10% accuracy specs out of the box, so that is less then 4 > bits of meaningful data, floating point math would be overkill, 16 bit > math would even be overkill, the ARM would be overkill, you don't need > a floating point DSP, use what you know, the ARM10% total inaccuracy doesn't necessarily mean 4 bits of meaningful data. It will only mean that if the sensor can't be calibrated, has wildly nonlinear output, and random response to temperature. I doubt any of those things are true. Even if they were, floating-point could still be useful -- it accounts for roundoff error and overflow. It's not best for everything, but the choice has much more to do with the computation problem than the sensor. --mpa
Reply by ●December 22, 20062006-12-22
The original poster hasn't said anything, but I thought I'd jump in, because I'm interested too. So far, everybody's posted about free / cheap compilers, demo boards, etc. The missing element is the *programmer*. For example, I designed a small sub-US$100 board, which you can easily order now, and which makes a fairly nice DSP development kit .. .. except for one thing: you need a US$1200 programmer to debug with it, and a license for a certain proprietary compiler to compile code for it at all. (It's not sold as a development board, so no questions please. :) ) If the programmer weren't $1200.00, it would be a much better proposition, but the development system and software are prohibitive. I think the answer may turn out to be ARM -- not because the chip is fastest, but because the programming hardware is plentiful and cheap, and the compiler is free. It seems that DSPs are still Big Iron. --mpa
