Floppy emulator with flash media

Steve at fivetrees wrote:
> "tns1" <tns1@cox.net> wrote in message 
> news:4QkDi.30881$L_7.3954@newsfe16.phx...
> .... Which is just as well, since none of the floppies appear to now be 
> readable. Tried a random handful with a new drive; no go - "disk not 
> formatted". Thus, *all* my floppies are being binned. I also had several 
> hundred 5.25" disks, including some new ones still in unopened boxes... 
> and a drive. All heading for the bin. Same goes for the short-lived and 
> troublesome Colorado Jumbo tape drives and a dozen or so backup tapes. 
> Seems a shame, but hey. Same goes for a filing cabinet full of data 
> sheets and a large pile of databooks, all now obsolete due to the 
> interweb...

Hello Steve,

Would you by any chance accept to ship some of those databooks away, instead
of binning them? I'm always looking for data on some old CPUs I've got here,
so you may well have some books that would be useful here...

Thanks!
Regards,
D.


PS: I tried to send you a direct email -- it bounced back with a cryptic
Deferred: 451 Temporary failure, please try again later.
451 4.4.1 reply: read error from mail.fivetrees.com.
Deferred: 451 Temporary failure, please try again later.
451 4.4.1 reply: read error from mail2.fivetrees.com.

On Sep 5, 7:46 pm, "Steve at fivetrees" <st...@NOSPAMTAfivetrees.com>
wrote:

[various goodies]

I replied to your email but I'm getting the same bizarre errors that
others have reported. Queer.

"D." <user@server.net> wrote in message 
news:46dfface$0$26365$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Steve at fivetrees wrote:
>> "tns1" <tns1@cox.net> wrote in message 
>> news:4QkDi.30881$L_7.3954@newsfe16.phx...
>> .... Which is just as well, since none of the floppies appear to now 
>> be readable. Tried a random handful with a new drive; no go - "disk 
>> not formatted". Thus, *all* my floppies are being binned. I also had 
>> several hundred 5.25" disks, including some new ones still in 
>> unopened boxes... and a drive. All heading for the bin. Same goes for 
>> the short-lived and troublesome Colorado Jumbo tape drives and a 
>> dozen or so backup tapes. Seems a shame, but hey. Same goes for a 
>> filing cabinet full of data sheets and a large pile of databooks, all 
>> now obsolete due to the interweb...
>
> Hello Steve,
>
> Would you by any chance accept to ship some of those databooks away, 
> instead
> of binning them? I'm always looking for data on some old CPUs I've got 
> here,
> so you may well have some books that would be useful here...

Ah. I'm afraid you're slightly too late. We've already bagged up all the 
books for disposal. Sorry.

If I get the chance to sort through them again, I will, but I can't 
guarantee it. We're now very short of time.

> PS: I tried to send you a direct email -- it bounced back with a 
> cryptic
> Deferred: 451 Temporary failure, please try again later.
> 451 4.4.1 reply: read error from mail.fivetrees.com.
> Deferred: 451 Temporary failure, please try again later.
> 451 4.4.1 reply: read error from mail2.fivetrees.com.

Yes, that's normal and benign. The fivetrees servers operate greylisting 
as an antispam measure:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greylisting

But you shouldn't see bounces - your mailserver should quietly retry and 
will succeed after an hour or so. Unless you're doing stuff manually, of 
course, and not using a well-behaved mailserver. A bit like a spammer 
;).

Steve
http://www.fivetrees.com 

"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1189088677.313676.17690@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 5, 7:46 pm, "Steve at fivetrees" <st...@NOSPAMTAfivetrees.com>
> wrote:
>
> [various goodies]
>
> I replied to your email but I'm getting the same bizarre errors that
> others have reported. Queer.

Saw your message. See my response to "D." (hint: greylisting).

Steve
http://www.fivetrees.com 

Steve at fivetrees wrote:
> "D." <user@server.net> wrote in message 

>> Would you by any chance accept to ship some of those databooks away, 
>> instead
>> of binning them? I'm always looking for data on some old CPUs I've got 
>> here,
>> so you may well have some books that would be useful here...
> 
> Ah. I'm afraid you're slightly too late. We've already bagged up all the 
> books for disposal. Sorry.

Ah I see. I can understand that: saturday is two days away!

> If I get the chance to sort through them again, I will, but I can't 
> guarantee it. We're now very short of time.

No problem.

>> PS: I tried to send you a direct email -- it bounced back with a 
>> cryptic
>> Deferred: 451 Temporary failure, please try again later.
>> 451 4.4.1 reply: read error from mail.fivetrees.com.
>> Deferred: 451 Temporary failure, please try again later.
>> 451 4.4.1 reply: read error from mail2.fivetrees.com.
> 
> Yes, that's normal and benign. The fivetrees servers operate greylisting 
> as an antispam measure:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greylisting
> 
> But you shouldn't see bounces - your mailserver should quietly retry and 
> will succeed after an hour or so. Unless you're doing stuff manually, of 
> course, and not using a well-behaved mailserver. A bit like a spammer 
> ;).

I understand now. But apparently my ISP's mail server isn't well-behaved, as
it had been trying for four hours before sending me what is actually a
notification, not a bounce, my mistake.

It seems that fate didn't allow me to have your books: had you received the
original message in time, there may have still been a chance that they would
not have been in the bags yet!

> Steve
> http://www.fivetrees.com 

Thanks and regards,
D.

On Sep 5, 12:00 pm, tns1 <t...@cox.net> wrote:
> ghel...@lycos.com wrote:
> > On Sep 4, 3:17 pm, tns1 <t...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >>>A while back I created a gizmo that connected an IDE drive to a ST-412
> >>>controller, so it can be done, and reliably.
>
> >>As I understand it this is was an IDE controller, not a FDC controller.
> >>I can go out and buy an IDE to CF or SD adaptor, but I don't see any FDC
> >>to X adaptors. I have seen a few hobbyist attempts to do this but
> >>nothing commercial.  The more I read the more I see there were quite a
> >>few different densities and disk formats, probably more so with the
> >>equipment I am talking about.
>
> > Not really.  This gizmo emulated an MFM hard disk drive.  The IDE
> > drive was just to record the data.
>
> > The data format of a floppy is not that different from the data format
> > of an ST-412 drive.  MFM is MFM.
>
> > G.,
>
> I thought one difference between the FDC and IDE interface (right at the
> connector), was that the FDC does talk at that lowest level so that MFM,
> FM, GCR whatever is present right on the ribbon cable, but for IDE this
> lower layer is done by chips on the drive itself. At least that is what
> I thought a modern IDE drive did. I now see that the ST-412 was one of
> the very first. Was it considered IDE back then?

You don't seem to understand; the gizmo I made adapted an IDE drive
(which one can still buy) so that it would emulate an MFM hard drive
(ST-412).

It could be used to replace an old MFM drive, which you can NOT buy
anymore.

G.

ghelbig@lycos.com wrote:
> On Sep 5, 12:00 pm, tns1 <t...@cox.net> wrote:
> 
>>ghel...@lycos.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Sep 4, 3:17 pm, tns1 <t...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>>A while back I created a gizmo that connected an IDE drive to a ST-412
>>>>>controller, so it can be done, and reliably.
>>
>>>>As I understand it this is was an IDE controller, not a FDC controller.
>>>>I can go out and buy an IDE to CF or SD adaptor, but I don't see any FDC
>>>>to X adaptors. I have seen a few hobbyist attempts to do this but
>>>>nothing commercial.  The more I read the more I see there were quite a
>>>>few different densities and disk formats, probably more so with the
>>>>equipment I am talking about.
>>
>>>Not really.  This gizmo emulated an MFM hard disk drive.  The IDE
>>>drive was just to record the data.
>>
>>>The data format of a floppy is not that different from the data format
>>>of an ST-412 drive.  MFM is MFM.
>>
>>>G.,
>>
>>I thought one difference between the FDC and IDE interface (right at the
>>connector), was that the FDC does talk at that lowest level so that MFM,
>>FM, GCR whatever is present right on the ribbon cable, but for IDE this
>>lower layer is done by chips on the drive itself. At least that is what
>>I thought a modern IDE drive did. I now see that the ST-412 was one of
>>the very first. Was it considered IDE back then?
> 
> 
> You don't seem to understand; the gizmo I made adapted an IDE drive
> (which one can still buy) so that it would emulate an MFM hard drive
> (ST-412).
> 
> It could be used to replace an old MFM drive, which you can NOT buy
> anymore.
> 
> G.
> 
Now I see. Pretty much the same set of design goals I am looking at, but 
at a higher speed. Did your gizmo also support disk formatting? This is 
one part that may not translate easily between different media.

On Sep 6, 8:14 pm, tns1 <t...@cox.net> wrote:
> ghel...@lycos.com wrote:
> > On Sep 5, 12:00 pm, tns1 <t...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >>ghel...@lycos.com wrote:
>
> >>>On Sep 4, 3:17 pm, tns1 <t...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >>>>>A while back I created a gizmo that connected an IDE drive to a ST-412
> >>>>>controller, so it can be done, and reliably.
>
> >>>>As I understand it this is was an IDE controller, not a FDC controller.
> >>>>I can go out and buy an IDE to CF or SD adaptor, but I don't see any FDC
> >>>>to X adaptors. I have seen a few hobbyist attempts to do this but
> >>>>nothing commercial.  The more I read the more I see there were quite a
> >>>>few different densities and disk formats, probably more so with the
> >>>>equipment I am talking about.
>
> >>>Not really.  This gizmo emulated an MFM hard disk drive.  The IDE
> >>>drive was just to record the data.
>
> >>>The data format of a floppy is not that different from the data format
> >>>of an ST-412 drive.  MFM is MFM.
>
> >>>G.,
>
> >>I thought one difference between the FDC and IDE interface (right at the
> >>connector), was that the FDC does talk at that lowest level so that MFM,
> >>FM, GCR whatever is present right on the ribbon cable, but for IDE this
> >>lower layer is done by chips on the drive itself. At least that is what
> >>I thought a modern IDE drive did. I now see that the ST-412 was one of
> >>the very first. Was it considered IDE back then?
>
> > You don't seem to understand; the gizmo I made adapted an IDE drive
> > (which one can still buy) so that it would emulate an MFM hard drive
> > (ST-412).
>
> > It could be used to replace an old MFM drive, which you can NOT buy
> > anymore.
>
> > G.
>
> Now I see. Pretty much the same set of design goals I am looking at, but
> at a higher speed. Did your gizmo also support disk formatting? This is
> one part that may not translate easily between different media.

It did support formatting.  That's easier with ST-412; a floppy can be
FM or MFM encoded.

G.

> It did support formatting.  That's easier with ST-412; a floppy can be
> FM or MFM encoded.

But it must have been an impressive piece of work, I can well
appreciate it!

Dimiter

------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff               Transgalactic Instruments

http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------

On Sep 13, 2:41 am, ghel...@lycos.com wrote:
> On Sep 6, 8:14 pm, tns1 <t...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > ghel...@lycos.com wrote:
> > > On Sep 5, 12:00 pm, tns1 <t...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > >>ghel...@lycos.com wrote:
>
> > >>>On Sep 4, 3:17 pm, tns1 <t...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > >>>>>A while back I created a gizmo that connected an IDE drive to a ST-412
> > >>>>>controller, so it can be done, and reliably.
>
> > >>>>As I understand it this is was an IDE controller, not a FDC controller.
> > >>>>I can go out and buy an IDE to CF or SD adaptor, but I don't see any FDC
> > >>>>to X adaptors. I have seen a few hobbyist attempts to do this but
> > >>>>nothing commercial.  The more I read the more I see there were quite a
> > >>>>few different densities and disk formats, probably more so with the
> > >>>>equipment I am talking about.
>
> > >>>Not really.  This gizmo emulated an MFM hard disk drive.  The IDE
> > >>>drive was just to record the data.
>
> > >>>The data format of a floppy is not that different from the data format
> > >>>of an ST-412 drive.  MFM is MFM.
>
> > >>>G.,
>
> > >>I thought one difference between the FDC and IDE interface (right at the
> > >>connector), was that the FDC does talk at that lowest level so that MFM,
> > >>FM, GCR whatever is present right on the ribbon cable, but for IDE this
> > >>lower layer is done by chips on the drive itself. At least that is what
> > >>I thought a modern IDE drive did. I now see that the ST-412 was one of
> > >>the very first. Was it considered IDE back then?
>
> > > You don't seem to understand; the gizmo I made adapted an IDE drive
> > > (which one can still buy) so that it would emulate an MFM hard drive
> > > (ST-412).
>
> > > It could be used to replace an old MFM drive, which you can NOT buy
> > > anymore.
>
> > > G.
>
> > Now I see. Pretty much the same set of design goals I am looking at, but
> > at a higher speed. Did your gizmo also support disk formatting? This is
> > one part that may not translate easily between different media.
>
> It did support formatting.  That's easier with ST-412; a floppy can be
> FM or MFM encoded.
>
> G.

>Are there any commercial adaptors that would replace a floppy drive with 
>some type of flash storage (sd, mmc, thumb drive)? To the host, this 
>would have to look just like the floppy drive it replaced, but use 
>different media.

I can see that the last post here is from last september.

Have you had any luck with this device yet?
I am looking for a solution for it too.

I have found a promising hardware here:
http://jeanfrancoisdelnero.free.fr/floppy_drive_emulator/index.html
but it is only capable of reading from a virtual floppy, not writing to
it.

Please, if you already have a working solution, tell me about it.

Thanks, 
David