"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> writes:> John Devereux wrote: > >> >> - you don't have to jump though hoops to use constant data efficiently >> > >> > object code have very little assembly language in them. My mega128 >> > project is 106K of object code and only about 200 bytes of that (a >> >> Hmm.. I would have thought both issues would then be even *more* >> important! Particulary the constant data issue can be a pain if your > > I think the only const data in my code is a CRC table and a 200-byte > crypto key.The CRC table was the first application for it for me - it takes up too much ram otherwise (see below). This was not too bad, but it can get really awkward for complicated structures like a menu definition. /* calculates the 32 bit CRC of the data block at p, length len */ unsigned long bitCRC32(void*P, int len) { unsigned long crc = 0xffffffff; unsigned char *p = P; while(len--) { /* fast crc uses program memory table lookup */ #ifdef avr crc = pgm_read_dword((unsigned long *)&crctable[(crc^*p++)&0xFF] ) ^ (crc>>8); #else crc = crctable[(crc^*p++)&0xFF] ^ (crc>>8); #endif } crc ^= 0xFFFFFFFF; return crc; } ... // 32 bit crc lookup table. #ifndef avr #define PROGMEM #endif PROGMEM unsigned long crctable[256] = { 0x00000000L, 0x77073096L, 0xEE0E612CL, 0x990951BAL, 0x076DC419L, 0x706AF48FL, 0xE963A535L, 0x9E6495A3L, 0x0EDB8832L, 0x79DCB8A4L, 0xE0D5E91EL, 0x97D2D988L, 0x09B64C2BL, 0x7EB17CBDL, 0xE7B82D07L, 0x90BF1D91L, 0x1DB71064L, 0x6AB020F2L, 0xF3B97148L, 0x84BE41DEL, 0x1ADAD47DL, 0x6DDDE4EBL, 0xF4D4B551L, 0x83D385C7L, 0x136C9856L, 0x646BA8C0L, 0xFD62F97AL, 0x8A65C9ECL, 0x14015C4FL, 0x63066CD9L, 0xFA0F3D63L, 0x8D080DF5L, 0x3B6E20C8L, 0x4C69105EL, 0xD56041E4L, 0xA2677172L, 0x3C03E4D1L, 0x4B04D447L, 0xD20D85FDL, 0xA50AB56BL, 0x35B5A8FAL, 0x42B2986CL, 0xDBBBC9D6L, 0xACBCF940L, 0x32D86CE3L, 0x45DF5C75L, 0xDCD60DCFL, 0xABD13D59L, 0x26D930ACL, 0x51DE003AL, 0xC8D75180L, 0xBFD06116L, 0x21B4F4B5L, 0x56B3C423L, 0xCFBA9599L, 0xB8BDA50FL, 0x2802B89EL, 0x5F058808L, 0xC60CD9B2L, 0xB10BE924L, 0x2F6F7C87L, 0x58684C11L, 0xC1611DABL, 0xB6662D3DL, 0x76DC4190L, 0x01DB7106L, 0x98D220BCL, 0xEFD5102AL, 0x71B18589L, 0x06B6B51FL, 0x9FBFE4A5L, 0xE8B8D433L, 0x7807C9A2L, 0x0F00F934L, 0x9609A88EL, 0xE10E9818L, 0x7F6A0DBBL, 0x086D3D2DL, 0x91646C97L, 0xE6635C01L, 0x6B6B51F4L, 0x1C6C6162L, 0x856530D8L, 0xF262004EL, 0x6C0695EDL, 0x1B01A57BL, 0x8208F4C1L, 0xF50FC457L, 0x65B0D9C6L, 0x12B7E950L, 0x8BBEB8EAL, 0xFCB9887CL, 0x62DD1DDFL, 0x15DA2D49L, 0x8CD37CF3L, 0xFBD44C65L, 0x4DB26158L, 0x3AB551CEL, 0xA3BC0074L, 0xD4BB30E2L, 0x4ADFA541L, 0x3DD895D7L, 0xA4D1C46DL, 0xD3D6F4FBL, 0x4369E96AL, 0x346ED9FCL, 0xAD678846L, 0xDA60B8D0L, 0x44042D73L, 0x33031DE5L, 0xAA0A4C5FL, 0xDD0D7CC9L, 0x5005713CL, 0x270241AAL, 0xBE0B1010L, 0xC90C2086L, 0x5768B525L, 0x206F85B3L, 0xB966D409L, 0xCE61E49FL, 0x5EDEF90EL, 0x29D9C998L, 0xB0D09822L, 0xC7D7A8B4L, 0x59B33D17L, 0x2EB40D81L, 0xB7BD5C3BL, 0xC0BA6CADL, 0xEDB88320L, 0x9ABFB3B6L, 0x03B6E20CL, 0x74B1D29AL, 0xEAD54739L, 0x9DD277AFL, 0x04DB2615L, 0x73DC1683L, 0xE3630B12L, 0x94643B84L, 0x0D6D6A3EL, 0x7A6A5AA8L, 0xE40ECF0BL, 0x9309FF9DL, 0x0A00AE27L, 0x7D079EB1L, 0xF00F9344L, 0x8708A3D2L, 0x1E01F268L, 0x6906C2FEL, 0xF762575DL, 0x806567CBL, 0x196C3671L, 0x6E6B06E7L, 0xFED41B76L, 0x89D32BE0L, 0x10DA7A5AL, 0x67DD4ACCL, 0xF9B9DF6FL, 0x8EBEEFF9L, 0x17B7BE43L, 0x60B08ED5L, 0xD6D6A3E8L, 0xA1D1937EL, 0x38D8C2C4L, 0x4FDFF252L, 0xD1BB67F1L, 0xA6BC5767L, 0x3FB506DDL, 0x48B2364BL, 0xD80D2BDAL, 0xAF0A1B4CL, 0x36034AF6L, 0x41047A60L, 0xDF60EFC3L, 0xA867DF55L, 0x316E8EEFL, 0x4669BE79L, 0xCB61B38CL, 0xBC66831AL, 0x256FD2A0L, 0x5268E236L, 0xCC0C7795L, 0xBB0B4703L, 0x220216B9L, 0x5505262FL, 0xC5BA3BBEL, 0xB2BD0B28L, 0x2BB45A92L, 0x5CB36A04L, 0xC2D7FFA7L, 0xB5D0CF31L, 0x2CD99E8BL, 0x5BDEAE1DL, 0x9B64C2B0L, 0xEC63F226L, 0x756AA39CL, 0x026D930AL, 0x9C0906A9L, 0xEB0E363FL, 0x72076785L, 0x05005713L, 0x95BF4A82L, 0xE2B87A14L, 0x7BB12BAEL, 0x0CB61B38L, 0x92D28E9BL, 0xE5D5BE0DL, 0x7CDCEFB7L, 0x0BDBDF21L, 0x86D3D2D4L, 0xF1D4E242L, 0x68DDB3F8L, 0x1FDA836EL, 0x81BE16CDL, 0xF6B9265BL, 0x6FB077E1L, 0x18B74777L, 0x88085AE6L, 0xFF0F6A70L, 0x66063BCAL, 0x11010B5CL, 0x8F659EFFL, 0xF862AE69L, 0x616BFFD3L, 0x166CCF45L, 0xA00AE278L, 0xD70DD2EEL, 0x4E048354L, 0x3903B3C2L, 0xA7672661L, 0xD06016F7L, 0x4969474DL, 0x3E6E77DBL, 0xAED16A4AL, 0xD9D65ADCL, 0x40DF0B66L, 0x37D83BF0L, 0xA9BCAE53L, 0xDEBB9EC5L, 0x47B2CF7FL, 0x30B5FFE9L, 0xBDBDF21CL, 0xCABAC28AL, 0x53B39330L, 0x24B4A3A6L, 0xBAD03605L, 0xCDD70693L, 0x54DE5729L, 0x23D967BFL, 0xB3667A2EL, 0xC4614AB8L, 0x5D681B02L, 0x2A6F2B94L, 0xB40BBE37L, 0xC30C8EA1L, 0x5A05DF1BL, 0x2D02EF8DL }; /*****************************************************************/ /* End of CRC Lookup Table */ /*****************************************************************/ -- John Devereux
Ulf, what of these new AVRs? :)
Started by ●January 10, 2006
Reply by ●January 14, 20062006-01-14
Reply by ●January 14, 20062006-01-14
On 14 Jan 2006 10:30:45 -0800, "larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote:>Jonathan Kirwan wrote: > >> Needless to say, I've not specified any Atmel parts and I'm not >> planning to. > >Atmel does treat big people very well, which is presumably how they get >away with this. The reason I said I know _I_ could get samples, if they >exist, is because other SBUs in my company use tens of thousands of >AVRs of various breeds, and Atmel is trying very hard to get a foot in >the door of my SBU. I want to design them in because they're much >easier to work with than the COP and NEC 78K series (which is what we >have in the products right now) and also considerably cheaper >(dollar-per-feature) at our "family" price. I could promise about half >a million pieces a year on some of our projects, too - which is enough >to get any rep out of his chair :)I never doubted any of that. I think the consistent picture is that Atmel has a clear understanding of its crafted business model and adheres well to it. That business model just isn't one that is largely congruent with mine. Jon
Reply by ●January 14, 20062006-01-14
larwe wrote:> Ulf Samuelsson wrote: > >> You should be able to order samples of the ATmega2561 though... > > Yeah, right. I never heard of anyone in anything less than a Fortune > 50 company getting samples out of Atmel. You can order until your > fingers are worn to the bone, but you won't get so much as an email.Can't comment for Atmel U.S. but I order samples to customers frequently. I don't worry too much if it is a homebrew or Fortune 50. The Atmel sample system seems to work much much better now than 15 months ago so if your experience is from that time, then you might want to retry it.> > You're correct that _I_ could go to my day job and call the Atmel rep > and say "I've got a personal project that could use a few samples". > However I don't mix business and pleasure like that - I keep my > personal fun projects at a very distant arm's length from my employer. > > The average small person has more chance of being elected President > than of getting a single ATtiny11 sample.I think I read somewhere cost George Bush $100M to get reelected. I am sure that just a couple of M$ would get you a tiny11 sample. -- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com This message is intended to be my own personal view and it may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
Reply by ●January 14, 20062006-01-14
Jonathan Kirwan wrote:> On 14 Jan 2006 10:30:45 -0800, "larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Jonathan Kirwan wrote: >> >>> Needless to say, I've not specified any Atmel parts and I'm not >>> planning to. >> >> Atmel does treat big people very well, which is presumably how they >> get away with this. The reason I said I know _I_ could get samples, >> if they exist, is because other SBUs in my company use tens of >> thousands of AVRs of various breeds, and Atmel is trying very hard >> to get a foot in the door of my SBU. I want to design them in >> because they're much easier to work with than the COP and NEC 78K >> series (which is what we have in the products right now) and also >> considerably cheaper (dollar-per-feature) at our "family" price. I >> could promise about half a million pieces a year on some of our >> projects, too - which is enough to get any rep out of his chair :) > > I never doubted any of that. I think the consistent picture is that > Atmel has a clear understanding of its crafted business model and > adheres well to it. That business model just isn't one that is > largely congruent with mine.I think this is a misunderstanding�. The sample system was not really working before the end of 2004 and large customers got their samples because the direct sales force fought to get them. I think the sample ordering process is now functional so if a sample order is entered and parts are in stock, then they get shipped quite soon reagdless if dfortune 50 or not. There can be of course be times when the sample stock is dried up for a specific part.> > Jon-- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com This message is intended to be my own personal view and it may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
Reply by ●January 14, 20062006-01-14
Ulf Samuelsson wrote:> I think this is a misunderstanding=B4. > The sample system was not really working before the end of 2004 > and large customers got their samples because the direct sales force foug=ht> to get them. > I think the sample ordering process is now functionalI tried twice during 2005 to get samples, once of the mega16L and once of the mega8L. Since there were thousands available in distribution, I greatly doubt that there were no samples. TI, Philips, Freescale, Analog Devices, Microchip, Maxim - all very generous with samples. TI and Freescale send them out from Digi-Key with no Digi-Key logo on the packing slip.
Reply by ●January 14, 20062006-01-14
larwe wrote:> Ulf Samuelsson wrote: > >> I think this is a misunderstanding�. >> The sample system was not really working before the end of 2004 >> and large customers got their samples because the direct sales force >> fought to get them. >> I think the sample ordering process is now functional > > I tried twice during 2005 to get samples, once of the mega16L and once > of the mega8L. Since there were thousands available in distribution, I > greatly doubt that there were no samples.Don't understand why. I check the complete sample log right now for my region 2005. There are three main reasons for samples not beeing shipped. 1) Part not in production, I.E not available to sample department. This should not affect mega16L/8L 2) Too many samples ordered, that puts stuff on hold. Max 5 AVRs per type is the general rule. An inexperienced internal sales engineer could order more, but then the sample order would not get shipped and needs manual followup to get the order shipped. If you avoid trying to get more than 5, you avoid this potential problem. It would be OK to order 5 x ATmega8L and 5 x ATmega16L. 3) Not shipped for unexplained reason. This is about 1% of all sample orders visible to me for the whole of 2005, so very very few compared to the total number of sample orders. It is not unlikely that they got the samples outside the system. Maybe someone tried to get samples outside the system?> TI, Philips, Freescale, Analog Devices, Microchip, Maxim - all very > generous with samples. TI and Freescale send them out from Digi-Key > with no Digi-Key logo on the packing slip.As you can see from above, basically everyone requesting things (that was shippable) got what they wanted. Really can't see why you had a problem. Noone has ever told me to ship only to "large" customers. I think every one ordering samples get equal treatment by the "system", but large customers has the benefit of direct access to the Atmel sales force or get indirect attention through the distributors. Atmel is supplying loads of chips to school and universities as well. In an exhibition in Sweden late 2004, all the universities were showing their projects, and ALL but one ran their projects on the AVR. I had to go and talk to the lonely wolf.. They had just completed the development of a course based on the PIC and were not interested at start but after some email conversation they decided to go for an AVR (AT90CAN128) in a large project (involving development of a racing car). I passed by the IAR stand in another exhibition, and told them the story "Everyone but one is using the AVR, and now the one has changed as well :-)" It turned out that the guy responsible for course development at that specific university was standing next to me when I told the story to the IAR guys. He told me that they have noted that while they were teaching PIC at the university, the students were selecting the AVR for their home projects :-) To make a long story short, now they have four courses on the AVR. To support the thousands of sample requests a semiconductor company gets a *process* is needed. This process was not in place inside Atmel 15 months ago, but I think the track record for 2005 is OK. When I look at shipments date (have no history here) I see that all orders entered early this week (or before) has certainly been shipped unless it has run into problems described above. If I were you I would ask to have the Sample "Order Id" for any sample order not shipped within 1 or maybe 2 weeks. This is useful when you request a follow up. -- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com This message is intended to be my own personal view and it may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
Reply by ●January 14, 20062006-01-14
Ulf Samuelsson wrote:> > I tried twice during 2005 to get samples, once of the mega16L and once > > of the mega8L. Since there were thousands available in distribution, I > > Don't understand why.Me neither. But all I see is the customer front-end.> 2) Too many samples ordered, that puts stuff on hold. Max 5 AVRs per type isI ordered 3pcs on each occasion.> If I were you I would ask to have the Sample "Order Id" for any sample order > not shipped within 1 or maybe 2 weeks.So, who do you ask? These requests were submitted using the online sample ordering process. No confirmation email, no number.
Reply by ●January 15, 20062006-01-15
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 22:21:14 +0100, "Ulf Samuelsson" <ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com> wrote:><snip> >The sample system was not really working before the end of 2004 >and large customers got their samples because the direct sales force fought >to get them.Could be. If memory serves, this debacle lasted most of the year of 2002 (late Feb to mid Dec.) And I was interacting with local FAE, local dist., as well as Jaques (I think) in France. The local FAE (I continue to receive letters from him on the AT91 family) was totally focused on asking me only about our business prospects, while also apologizing for what he knew were long delays so far. It wasn't that there weren't parts, Ulf. He told me they had some. It was about who got them. Things were very late and I was worrying and he has asking those business questions he was supposed to ask because that's what his management wanted to know from me. Like Lewin, my experience with everyone else has been rather different and ... more accommodating without the undue stress. Things may be much better, but there are so many good choices today. There isn't such a need to offer yet another hand in friendship after the last one was bitten off at the elbow, particularly when others are purring along nicely. I can afford the long memory. Jon
Reply by ●January 15, 20062006-01-15
>> If I were you I would ask to have the Sample "Order Id" for any >> sample order not shipped within 1 or maybe 2 weeks. > > So, who do you ask? These requests were submitted using the online > sample ordering process. No confirmation email, no number.The samples orders are normally entered by an internal sales assistant. Which web site do you use? -- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com This message is intended to be my own personal view and it may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
Reply by ●January 15, 20062006-01-15
Ulf Samuelsson wrote:> >> If I were you I would ask to have the Sample "Order Id" for any > >> sample order not shipped within 1 or maybe 2 weeks. > > > > So, who do you ask? These requests were submitted using the online > > sample ordering process. No confirmation email, no number. > > The samples orders are normally entered by an internal sales assistant. > Which web site do you use?Amazingly, Ulf, I used www.atmel.com to order samples from Atmel (?!) The specific URL: http://www.atmel.com/forms/Samples.asp?family_id=607
