Today, I had the misfortune

Hello Graham,

>>>
>>>>re: NXP
>>>>Actually it is one of my favourite sites. No registration,
>>>
>>>When were you last there ?
>>>
>>>You're required to register now if you want to download anything.
>>>Sheer idiocy if you ask me.
>>>
>>
>>I just looked and downloaded a couple of ds without registration. Only
>>Javascript, no flash also. http://www.nxp.com/pip/PMD3001D.html
> 
> They must have changed it, thank goodness for that !
> 
> It's still horribly slow though. It wasn't that bad when it was Philips.
> 

But it was almost as bad. Remember that nonsensical wait for 
"...stockquote.philips.com..."? Plus nobody seemed to have ever taught 
their web designers what a packet latency is. 180-200msec EU-US, 
usually. Oh, and nobody there seemed to have grasped the concept of 
mirror servers. They still don't.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Jim Granville wrote:
> The Philips datasheets themsleves I find quite good, and the search
> usually gets pretty straight to them, IF you know the part number.
> Where they could improve things, is device search.

I prefer the Fairchild datasheets, especially for transistors. Where most semi 
manufacturers provide an ambiguous could-be-either-top-or-bottom-view diagram, 
Fairchild include a 3D view of the component, with pins labelled. Usually 
saves me a little confusion when breadboarding, anyway.

-- 
Phil.                         |  (\_/)  This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny
usenet06@philpem.me.uk        | (='.'=) into your signature to help him gain
http://www.philpem.me.uk/     | (")_(") world domination.
If mail bounces, replace "06" with the last two digits of the current year.

On Wednesday, in article
     <nbJ6h.7448$6t.329@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>
     notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net "Joerg" wrote:
>Hello Pete,
>
>
>> to visit the NXP (nee Philips) website. I am replacing a legacy part and 
>> needed the original datasheet for comparison purposes. It's not a 
>> website, it's marketdroid mental masturbation.
>> 
>Wouldn't have said it quite that drastically but I agree. It is a
>classic example of how not to set up a web site.

After mmy experiences today I would agree and go furtehr that is
is a push site, with no feedback routes that work. Even supposedly
setting up a 'My...' (how I hate that usage), is supposed to email
a password, which never arrives.

>> We've had these rants before, of course, but I'm getting to the point of
>> writing an open letter to semi mfrs - on the lines of 'just give me the 
>> content'. There's a place for javascript (I like the way TI and OnSemi 
>> [for example] use it for the parameterisable lists), but don't make the 
>> entire website non-navigable without it; and don't make me use Flash.
>> 
>> I use FF2 with NoScript and nxp.com is not navigable at all unless I 
>> enable javascript and Flash (ugh).
>> 
>> I wrote them a nastygram (which will no doubt be ignored). ...
>
>Tried that with Philips Semi (rest in peace...), Infineon and ST. In a 
>very friendly tone and to the top brass. Got ignored but that didn't 
>surprise me.

Unless you are a company buying millions of their highest priced
item they like ALL big organisations do not care.

>>                                                ... It's a pretty
>> website for the investors and an excuse when they start to go down the 
>> tubes "...but the website looks so nice with all those animations. It's 
>> not our fault nobody buys our products..." where in reality it _is_ 
>> their fault. Nobody buys the products because the website is not 
>> targeted at it's proper audience.
>
>Absolutamente. There are numerous reasons why some semi mfgs are 
>struggling, to the point where they must auction off their biz. Poor web 
>design is one but by far the predominant reason is a poor (or 
>non-existent?) sampling process. Try to get a few BSP297. Been there, 
>spent almost 2hrs on the phone, told them we'd pay whatever it takes, 
>was promised numerous times that they'd now really be on the way, became 
>frustrated, designed them out. That is "the" method to lose business. 
>Problem is, because of their lack in listening skills they'll never know 
>how much of their business is going to competitors on a regular basis.

Don't talk to me about samples/small qauntity purchasing!!

>> I made a final decision today to not bother looking for their parts any
>> more - there's nothing they have I can't get elsewhere, especially in 
>> the original design stage where I can choose parts based on 
>> availability, functionality and decent documentation (another pet peeve).
>
>I haven't put any company on my blacklist yet except those that are 
>notorious for vaporware (we all know those...). But like you I first go 
>to mfgs with a proper web site and when I find 2-3 sources within budget 
>I might never venture to the ones with inefficient web sites.

Close to being on my blacklist.

>> ok - rant mode off (for now). We now return to our regular programming.
>> 
>
>Well, some things need to be rubbed in. Hoping someone wakes up at the 
>big mfgs. Probably they won't.

Doubt they will, but just be surprised when things go wrong down the line
and make out there was nothing they could do to stop it. The board having
got huge payouts along the way.

--
Paul Carpenter          | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/>    PC Services
<http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/>              GNU H8 & mailing list info
<http://www.badweb.org.uk/>             For those web sites you hate

Tom Lucas wrote:
> "David Brown" <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote in message 
> news:455af372$0$8098$8404b019@news.wineasy.se...
>> Tom Lucas wrote:
>>> "PeteS" <peter.smith8380@ntlworld.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:s%r6h.14349$yz3.7358@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
>>>> Meindert Sprang wrote:
>>>>> "PeteS" <peter.smith8380@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:Hor6h.12804$yz3.11226@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
>>>>>> mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> I'm back from vacation (I live in the UK nowadays :) - I was 
>>>>>> trying to
>>>>>> deal with something a cow-orker hosed up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I went to the highlands and sampled many a fine malt - now I'm 
>>>>>> wishing I
>>>>>> was still doing it ;)
>>>>> The last time I visited a Morrisons they stocked a pretty decent 
>>>>> selection
>>>>> of malts. No need to go to the highlands for that.....
>>>>>
>>>>> Meindert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Buying a malt at Morrisons vs tasting it at the distillery is rather 
>>>> like the difference between buying a fish at Morrisons and getting 
>>>> it at the dock off the boat.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> PeteS
>>> Not long now until the most Northerly Scotch is ready for 
>>> consumption - late this year for the three year old and late 2008 for 
>>> the 5 year old. Check out http://shetlandwhisky.com/index-1.html for 
>>> details. It's pretty dear to pre-order and the taxman will want 
>>> another cut on delivery but it would be good to have a few bottles of 
>>> the first run (which might become a good investment - how much would 
>>> a bottle of the first Talisker go for?)
>>>
>> 3 year old whiskey is going to be pretty rough - that's the minimum 
>> age it has to be before you can even legally call it whiskey.  There 
>> are very few self-respecting malts that are less than 8 years old.
> 
> I know and it worried me somewhat, especially considering what they are 
> charging. However, I think there must be some 8yo due for an appearance 
> because I dimly remember them beginning to mature the whisky quite a 
> while ago (and it's been easily three years since I was last on the 
> island).
> 
> Still it's darn cold up there and a bit of rough whisky would be welcome 
> to warm the cockles ;-)
> 
> 

I was raised a little to the south of you (in Wick), and my great 
grandfather worked in the local distillery. After he retired, the 
workers would bring him a bottle of 'white whisky' once a week, and a 
bottle of the good stuff (marked as failing to meet standard, but that 
was just a ruse) every fortnight.

It's cold there too - went there last week to catch up with family.

Cheers

PeteS

Paul Carpenter wrote:

>  Even supposedly
> setting up a 'My...' (how I hate that usage), is supposed to email
> a password, which never arrives.

It took around 12 hours for me.

Graham

Hello Paul,

>>
>>>to visit the NXP (nee Philips) website. I am replacing a legacy part and 
>>>needed the original datasheet for comparison purposes. It's not a 
>>>website, it's marketdroid mental masturbation.
>>
>>Wouldn't have said it quite that drastically but I agree. It is a
>>classic example of how not to set up a web site.
> 
> After mmy experiences today I would agree and go furtehr that is
> is a push site, with no feedback routes that work. Even supposedly
> setting up a 'My...' (how I hate that usage), is supposed to email
> a password, which never arrives.
> 

Somehow that does not surprise me with this company. The sad part is 
that it was Philips that brought me into electronics. My parents got me 
an EE20 experimenters kit for Christmas when I was a kid. While in 
Europe their semi part were made and distributed by Valvo in Hamburg. 
They became part of Philips and the support was absolutely top notch. 
Back then I would not have dreamed that this could deteriorate so far 
and so fast.

Same with Siemens BTW. After it became Infineon it went downhill IMHO, 
and fast.

Plenty of examples how to do it right: Analog Devices, National, TI, and 
on and on. Hey Europe: Wake up!

> 
>>>We've had these rants before, of course, but I'm getting to the point of
>>>writing an open letter to semi mfrs - on the lines of 'just give me the 
>>>content'. There's a place for javascript (I like the way TI and OnSemi 
>>>[for example] use it for the parameterisable lists), but don't make the 
>>>entire website non-navigable without it; and don't make me use Flash.
>>>
>>>I use FF2 with NoScript and nxp.com is not navigable at all unless I 
>>>enable javascript and Flash (ugh).
>>>
>>>I wrote them a nastygram (which will no doubt be ignored). ...
>>
>>Tried that with Philips Semi (rest in peace...), Infineon and ST. In a 
>>very friendly tone and to the top brass. Got ignored but that didn't 
>>surprise me.
> 
> Unless you are a company buying millions of their highest priced
> item they like ALL big organisations do not care.
> 

Yep. But they fail to realize that today's small players are tomorrow's 
big guys. The other thing they fail to see is that consultants often 
design complete mass products. If they don't support them then their 
parts will never make it in. Once a design decision has been made it's 
done and done. Next to impossible to get in after the ECO. I've had 
sales guys close to bursting into tears after they found that out the 
hard way.

> 
>>>                                               ... It's a pretty
>>>website for the investors and an excuse when they start to go down the 
>>>tubes "...but the website looks so nice with all those animations. It's 
>>>not our fault nobody buys our products..." where in reality it _is_ 
>>>their fault. Nobody buys the products because the website is not 
>>>targeted at it's proper audience.
>>
>>Absolutamente. There are numerous reasons why some semi mfgs are 
>>struggling, to the point where they must auction off their biz. Poor web 
>>design is one but by far the predominant reason is a poor (or 
>>non-existent?) sampling process. Try to get a few BSP297. Been there, 
>>spent almost 2hrs on the phone, told them we'd pay whatever it takes, 
>>was promised numerous times that they'd now really be on the way, became 
>>frustrated, designed them out. That is "the" method to lose business. 
>>Problem is, because of their lack in listening skills they'll never know 
>>how much of their business is going to competitors on a regular basis.
> 
> 
> Don't talk to me about samples/small qauntity purchasing!!
> 

If they can't even figure that out they should at least sell through 
Digikey. But for large ranges of EU semiconductors that's not happening. 
Hence no design-wins.

> 
>>>I made a final decision today to not bother looking for their parts any
>>>more - there's nothing they have I can't get elsewhere, especially in 
>>>the original design stage where I can choose parts based on 
>>>availability, functionality and decent documentation (another pet peeve).
>>
>>I haven't put any company on my blacklist yet except those that are 
>>notorious for vaporware (we all know those...). But like you I first go 
>>to mfgs with a proper web site and when I find 2-3 sources within budget 
>>I might never venture to the ones with inefficient web sites.
> 
> 
> Close to being on my blacklist.
> 
> 
>>>ok - rant mode off (for now). We now return to our regular programming.
>>>
>>
>>Well, some things need to be rubbed in. Hoping someone wakes up at the 
>>big mfgs. Probably they won't.
> 
> 
> Doubt they will, but just be surprised when things go wrong down the line
> and make out there was nothing they could do to stop it. The board having
> got huge payouts along the way.
> 

Their top brass often has the habit of blaming everything else. The 
economy, the exchange rates. Something. All they'd initially need in 
terms of biz diagnostics would be a large mirror.

I remember when Jan Timmer slammed the pulpit. He really had a fit about 
the financials. I wrote to him with some ideas and so did others but he 
didn't listen.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Joerg wrote:
<snip>
>> Don't talk to me about samples/small qauntity purchasing!!
>>
> 
> If they can't even figure that out they should at least sell through 
> Digikey. But for large ranges of EU semiconductors that's not happening. 
> Hence no design-wins.

  I was looking for a PowerMOSFET shortlist recently, and after being
frustrated by various web sites, I used Digikey's search.
Worked quite well [except the dummies list Power, and not milliohms],
and showed some NXP & Infineon parts I would not otherwise have seen.
  Digikey's web site has the added advantage of having a 'stock reality 
check' built right in :)

  -jg

Hello Jim,


>>> Don't talk to me about samples/small qauntity purchasing!!
>>
>> If they can't even figure that out they should at least sell through 
>> Digikey. But for large ranges of EU semiconductors that's not 
>> happening. Hence no design-wins.
> 
>  I was looking for a PowerMOSFET shortlist recently, and after being
> frustrated by various web sites, I used Digikey's search.
> Worked quite well [except the dummies list Power, and not milliohms],
> and showed some NXP & Infineon parts I would not otherwise have seen.
>  Digikey's web site has the added advantage of having a 'stock reality 
> check' built right in :)
> 

Digikey has some but much of the good stuff just isn't there. In my case 
it was the BSP297. A great part, true engineering excellence, but it 
turned out to be nearly unobtainium unless you order a reel. Even then 
you might have to wait weeks. Not a realistic proposition for the 
prototype phase. They really need to clean up their act.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Joerg wrote:

> Digikey has some but much of the good stuff just isn't there. In my case 
> it was the BSP297. A great part, true engineering excellence, but it 
> turned out to be nearly unobtainium unless you order a reel. Even then 
> you might have to wait weeks. Not a realistic proposition for the 
> prototype phase. They really need to clean up their act.

RS-components show that one, on a 7 day lead time here in NZ ?

-jg

Hello Jim,


>> Digikey has some but much of the good stuff just isn't there. In my 
>> case it was the BSP297. A great part, true engineering excellence, but 
>> it turned out to be nearly unobtainium unless you order a reel. Even 
>> then you might have to wait weeks. Not a realistic proposition for the 
>> prototype phase. They really need to clean up their act.
> 
> 
> RS-components show that one, on a 7 day lead time here in NZ ?
> 

In the US, pretty large market I guess, it looks like this:

Digikey: Unobtanium
Mouser: Unobtanium
Arrow: 4 weeks (typically you must buy per reel)

That ain't no way to market electronic parts.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com